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A favourite client asks for new, much bigger TM discounts
Thread poster: Renate Schipper
Renate Schipper
Renate Schipper  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:34
English to Dutch
TOPIC STARTER
No, with an 'E' Feb 12, 2021

Robert Rietveld wrote:

Does the name of the client start with an 'A'?


They've been acquired by a bigger company last year that's most likely behind the new scale.


 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Open up a couple old purchase orders Feb 13, 2021

Recalculate them with new pricing, see how much of a hit you take, and make conclusions based on that.

Oh, and tell us. We're curious!


Thomas Pfann
 
Ruchira Raychaudhuri
Ruchira Raychaudhuri  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 13:34
Member (2008)
Dutch to English
In the same boat Feb 16, 2021

Peter Shortall wrote:

Renée van Bijsterveld wrote:

Locked segment: 0% of word rate
Context match: 0%
Repetitions: 10%
Cross-file repetitions: 10%
100%: 10%
95-99%: 20%
85-94%: 35%
75-84%: 35%
50-74%: 100%


This is exactly the same grid I received earlier this month from a client. And...

Robert Rietveld wrote:

Does the name of the client start with an 'A'?


In my case, yes it does! A multinational empire that has been busily gobbling up smaller companies across western Europe over the last year or two, including three companies I had worked for previously.

This is apparently a mass email to all of their translators, I don't think they have favourites (on the contrary, I get the impression they despise the lot of us equally!) There was no "do you agree to this?" or anything like that, of course, it was simply presented as a fait accompli. Now, do I put up my base rate and risk never hearing from them again? I'll mull over my decision over the weekend. Luckily, they're not a regular client of mine anyway.


Yes, the name definitely begins with 'A'. This company has also taken over a couple of my clients over the last 3-4 years. Recently its merged with yet another huge company whose name also starts with 'A' (so its 'A+A' now). Initially, one of my regular clients was still 'allowed' to pay as per the old CAT rates for a while. But now they've been told that they also have to toe the line set by 'A+A'. So one of the PMs advised me to ask for an increase in my base rate since she felt 'A+A' might be open to it. I've sent my request & a follow-up mail but have received no response at all.
It's pretty disheartening to have built up a good relationship with my client over the years but now it means nothing because they have no say in the matter anymore. What a joke! I have to deliver the same quality, put in the same effort and be paid 35% of my rate for 75% matches! And there is this enormous faceless multinational company which does not even acknowledge your presence by responding to a mail. It's definitely a take-it-or-leave-it situation with them.


Peter Shortall
Renate Schipper
 
Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 12:34
Danish to English
+ ...
That 35% 'A' company Feb 16, 2021

I don't deliver much to them, so I've told them in no uncertain terms what I think about this 'rate raid' and that I will not deliver anything where this grid is applied. They can find another supplier if that's how they want to do things. What I’m concerned, they can go to a certain very hot place.

Peter Shortall
Matthias Brombach
Bernhard Sulzer
Renate Schipper
 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
The other A, and walking away Feb 16, 2021

Ruchira Raychaudhuri wrote:

Yes, the name definitely begins with 'A'. This company has also taken over a couple of my clients over the last 3-4 years. Recently its merged with yet another huge company whose name also starts with 'A' (so its 'A+A' now). Initially, one of my regular clients was still 'allowed' to pay as per the old CAT rates for a while. But now they've been told that they also have to toe the line set by 'A+A'. So one of the PMs advised me to ask for an increase in my base rate since she felt 'A+A' might be open to it. I've sent my request & a follow-up mail but have received no response at all.
It's pretty disheartening to have built up a good relationship with my client over the years but now it means nothing because they have no say in the matter anymore. What a joke! I have to deliver the same quality, put in the same effort and be paid 35% of my rate for 75% matches! And there is this enormous faceless multinational company which does not even acknowledge your presence by responding to a mail. It's definitely a take-it-or-leave-it situation with them.


Yes, I know who the other A is as well. I used to work for that company too, many years ago, when they went by a different name. They were a really good client for a while, but then they became extremely price-sensitive. Now they are rolling out MT. I got a mass email from them the other day saying they're going to start using MT for Russian-English (because it offers 'very promising results') and inviting me to tell them whether I'm interested in this and emphasising how it makes the work quicker and this is reflected in the payment scheme (surprise, surprise). I won't be taking them up on that.

I'm not very surprised that you didn't get a reply to your email about raising your base rate, I think I might as well not send one either! If I'm offered further work and decide to take it on, I'll mention it then. And I agree, it really is disheartening when clients suddenly "go downmarket" like this and we are left with an unpalatable choice. I have consistently said no to MT as one client after the other (mostly medium-sized agencies) has switched to it in recent years. They succeed in winning people over by making the rate cuts gradual and emphasising each time how "this is only a little less than you get now...", but the cuts never stop, of course. So far, whenever I've walked away, I've had plenty of other offers of work coming in, but my fear is that one day, I'll have nowhere left to walk away to!

Incidentally, as far as I can tell from my research, the head of the 'A' empire started out as the owner of a small agency in France beginning with 'T'. I put 'T' on my blacklist of agencies to avoid (yes, I'm afraid I keep one of those!) some years ago as I didn't like its underhanded financial tactics. I feel sure that this man will be the origin of the new approach that has been rolled out across the whole organisation, he has clearly brought his bag of tricks with him.

I hope you will prosper regardless of what's happened, luckily there's still plenty of room in the industry alongside this steamroller of an organisation.


Thomas T. Frost
Adieu
Ruchira Raychaudhuri
Renate Schipper
 
Anne Maclennan
Anne Maclennan  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:34
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
Abandon 'A' Feb 16, 2021

The company beginning with ‘A’ has taken over three of my former clients. All three were pleasant to work with and I was satisfied with payment details. ‘A’ started demanding more for the same money with each take-over, while assuring me what a good company they are – but of course, they are unable to pay the ‘old’ rates. And of course, experience in translation does not count with them, where payment is concerned!

So I now work with other customers, who continue to pr
... See more
The company beginning with ‘A’ has taken over three of my former clients. All three were pleasant to work with and I was satisfied with payment details. ‘A’ started demanding more for the same money with each take-over, while assuring me what a good company they are – but of course, they are unable to pay the ‘old’ rates. And of course, experience in translation does not count with them, where payment is concerned!

So I now work with other customers, who continue to preserve their identity and to pay fair rates.

It is not always easy to abandon a source of income, but if you look at it like this, it may make sense. While translating for ‘A’ on their payment scale, you are not translating for other customers, which pay more fairly. The larger the agency gobbling up smaller agencies, the more pressure we will be under to accept unfair rates.
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Peter Shortall
Thomas T. Frost
Ruchira Raychaudhuri
Jo Macdonald
 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
This seems familiar Feb 16, 2021

Sounds like the Uber story of how the taxi industry got turned into a semi-automated gypsy cab sweatshop that runs on a high churn rate of homeless illegal immigrants with their cousin's papers and barely-literate ex-cons.

Soon you too will barely be able to pay for electricity and internet service to keep the MTPE going.

...they haven't started offering an exorbitantly pricey "lease" plan that provides you with a refurbished laptop, a CAT tool license, and wifi yet, ha
... See more
Sounds like the Uber story of how the taxi industry got turned into a semi-automated gypsy cab sweatshop that runs on a high churn rate of homeless illegal immigrants with their cousin's papers and barely-literate ex-cons.

Soon you too will barely be able to pay for electricity and internet service to keep the MTPE going.

...they haven't started offering an exorbitantly pricey "lease" plan that provides you with a refurbished laptop, a CAT tool license, and wifi yet, have they?
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Ruchira Raychaudhuri
Ruchira Raychaudhuri  Identity Verified
Belgium
Local time: 13:34
Member (2008)
Dutch to English
Caught between a rock and a hard place Feb 16, 2021

Peter Shortall wrote:

I hope you will prosper regardless of what's happened, luckily there's still plenty of room in the industry alongside this steamroller of an organisation.


Thanks Peter. Unfortunately, this particular agency that has been swallowed up was a rather important client for me, so walking away will have a big impact on my business. Perhaps I should see this as an opportunity to go looking for better -preferably smaller- clients. At any rate, if I do get a response from A+A, I'll post an update here.


Peter Shortall
 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
A gradual transition, and what's in a name Feb 16, 2021

Ruchira Raychaudhuri wrote:

Thanks Peter. Unfortunately, this particular agency that has been swallowed up was a rather important client for me, so walking away will have a big impact on my business. Perhaps I should see this as an opportunity to go looking for better -preferably smaller- clients. At any rate, if I do get a response from A+A, I'll post an update here.


I'm sorry that this is the case. Perhaps you could take a gradual approach by continuing to work for A+A while looking elsewhere for other clients, and then when you feel that you don't need A+A any more, you can cut your ties with them at that point. Good luck!

By the way, my apologies to Renate about the fact that the company I'm talking about is probably not the one you have in mind! Though as it happens, one of the two companies that Ruchira and I are now talking about (A+A) used to go by a name that began with 'E', just as yours does - a very uninspiring, generic name. Then it changed its name to a most unattractive one that makes it sound like something you'd squirt down toilets or disinfect kitchen worktops with. I've always felt it suits them.

[Edited at 2021-02-16 22:44 GMT]


Ruchira Raychaudhuri
 
Richard Purdom
Richard Purdom  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 12:34
Dutch to English
+ ...
Ridiculous request Feb 16, 2021

I got an e-mail today, from a company A that is presumably the same one, with the following:


"I am contacting you because we are working on the creation of xxxx engine having EN as a source language, and we need your help with Terminology extraction validation. This task should take around 1,5 to 2 hours maximum.

The aim of this task is to delete terms that are clearly not domain-specific, meaning terms that could erroneously extract bi-segments from public data
... See more
I got an e-mail today, from a company A that is presumably the same one, with the following:


"I am contacting you because we are working on the creation of xxxx engine having EN as a source language, and we need your help with Terminology extraction validation. This task should take around 1,5 to 2 hours maximum.

The aim of this task is to delete terms that are clearly not domain-specific, meaning terms that could erroneously extract bi-segments from public data that are not in-domain.

Kindly find attached an Excel file containing a list of terms in EN and the instruction file (pdf). We need only 500 validated terms."

It came with a list of technical jargon, and instructions that ended:

"If you are unsure about the real term and have no context, you can check domain-specific websites."

Yes, 1.5 or 2 hours to try and understand the ludicrous unintelligble instructions, research 500 terms, and help put everybody out of a job!

[Edited at 2021-02-16 21:36 GMT]
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Peter Shortall
Ruchira Raychaudhuri
Adieu
 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Hmmm Feb 17, 2021

Richard Purdom wrote:

I got an e-mail today, from a company A that is presumably the same one, with the following:


"I am contacting you because we are working on the creation of xxxx engine having EN as a source language, and we need your help with Terminology extraction validation. This task should take around 1,5 to 2 hours maximum.

The aim of this task is to delete terms that are clearly not domain-specific, meaning terms that could erroneously extract bi-segments from public data that are not in-domain.

Kindly find attached an Excel file containing a list of terms in EN and the instruction file (pdf). We need only 500 validated terms."

It came with a list of technical jargon, and instructions that ended:

"If you are unsure about the real term and have no context, you can check domain-specific websites."

Yes, 1.5 or 2 hours to try and understand the ludicrous unintelligble instructions, research 500 terms, and help put everybody out of a job!

[Edited at 2021-02-16 21:36 GMT]


Embrace your inner Luddite! Rage against the machine!

MT is only as good as its dictionaries


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:34
English to German
+ ...
Happy Trans-editing! Feb 17, 2021

Renate Schipper wrote:

@Crhis - oops half the post disappeared after posting, how odd! The new scale:

Locked segment: 0% of word rate
Context match: 10%
Repetitions: 10%
Cross-file repetitions: 10%
100%: 10%
95-99%: 25%
85-94%: 25%
75-84%: 25%
50-74%: 100%
0 -50%: 100%

My main issue is with the low matches, quite a big drop there. I could of course flat out refuse this new scale, but: I've had this client for over 10 years, enjoy the jobs they send me, they pay even before my invoice is due and send me work very regularly (about twice a month and usually quite big projects). Therefore I'd like to keep them happy and am inclined to accept slightly lower prices for matches. I just think the new scale is not fair. What do you guys reckon?


(In jest but worth thinking about

Here's the new scale for next year, including explanations so you can understand the reasons why; we think that's only fair.

Locked segment: 0% of word rate - as before

Context match: we pay: 5% - our powerful new algorithm engine now analyzes the most difficult-to-see contexts for your translation based on an incredible TM translation engine. No more need to understand context, how the words and phrases relate to each other. The engine does it all for you. A great help and it speeds up your work, simply incredible. It's the new TM XCTC engine - TM Xavier Catches The Context

Repetitions: 3% Since you will be given the words that are repeated, it simply becomes an automated task except for checking the correct placing of the word in the sentence structure - again a real game changer/deal breaker for translators who are interested in working very fast!

Cross-file repetitions: 1% These are duplicate segments according to our analysis in other files that are part of a multi-file project. They will be highlighted for you in the translation machine suggestion. Since you don't even have to look through them but simply accept the suggestion, this is a task we will totally automate next year - and it will become part of the 0% group. But we thought it is fair to you to still pay you this year.

100%: 1% Same word used over and over again. Only task is check placing.
95-99%: 5% Almost identical thus really only a task to choose between similar words and where to put them
85-94%: 6% Just a little more work than above
75-84%: 6% Same effort as above based on words already provided
50-74%: 6% same effort as above based on words already provided
0-50%: 10% Because closer matches have been identified already and help a lot here, we were able to further discount.

We apply it all for everybody's benefit - you work faster and can do more translations, and our clients either pay less ( which will secure more jobs for us and you) or we charge more if the client wants a second proofread which is a task we will also automate.

In 2 years, we will simply stop calling it translation but will call it trans-editing. It will get us even more jobs.

Happy translating and editing!

[Edited at 2021-02-17 22:41 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-02-17 22:44 GMT]


Renate Schipper
Ruchira Raychaudhuri
 
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