Glossary entry

Croatian term or phrase:

ije/je into English

English translation:

leave it as is

Added to glossary by Zeljko Susljic
Jan 21, 2005 09:53
19 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Croatian term

ije/je into English

Croatian to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
This is a part of a theatre play and it is explainging the audience the difference between Serbian and Croatian.
"Primjer umesto primer. Rjechi umesto rechi. Umjesto umesto umesto. Prjedsednik umesto predsednik. Pjevaj umesto pevaj. Pjucaj umesto pucaj. Ubij umesto ubi."
In English one could use phrases like "theater and theatre" or "colour" and "color", but words used in the play do have a certain meaning and are there for a reason.

Discussion

Non-ProZ.com Jan 22, 2005:
Hvala svima Dragi Prozijanci, hvala na dobronamjernim odgovorima. Kao prvo, postavili ste pitanja u vezi gramaticke korektnosti odredjenih rijeci: pjucaj, ubi... Moram reci da je ovo prijevod kazalisne predstave koja koristi rijeci iz govornog jezika i koje nisu uvijek gramaticki ispravne. Sjetite se samo davnog Radovana III i rijeci koje su u toj predstavi koristene... bez sumnje se ni one ne bi nasle u rijecnicima. Pjesnicka sloboda, sta cete. Kao drugo, mislim da cu koristiti rjesenje g. Perencevica: tu se ne radi samo o rijecima koje moraju ukazati na razlike izmedju hrvatskog i srpskog nego su te rijeci same po sebi pazljivo izabrane od strane pisca i kao takve ih prevodioc ne smije mijenjati. Mislim da cu morati koristiti nepopularno rjesenje i pribjeci "objasnjenjima prevodioca".
Hvala vam svima na dobronamjernim odgovorima,
Zeljko
Non-ProZ.com Jan 21, 2005:
Draga Ingrid,
Hvala na odgovoru. Meni je problem potpuno jasan, ali ne znam kako da ukazem na jezicne razlike izmedju hrvatskog i srpskog na nekom zapadnom jeziku: zbog toga sam i mislio na razlike izmedju AE e BE, ali nisam potpuno zadovoljan tim rjesenjem.

Proposed translations

+5
17 hrs
Selected

leave it as is

If there are clear references in the play to the Serbian and Croatian languages, you have no other way but to use the actual Serbian & Croatian words. Clumsy as it might seem, this really is not a problem at all. Your character would say something like: "It's rec in Serbian and rijec in Croatian" or whatever. On paper, rec and rijec would be italicised to set them apart from the rest of the English text, but the actors would have to pronounce these words in Serbian/Croatian. You can't replace rec/rijec with center/centre because the play is not about American & British E. The references are clearly to Serbian & Croatian. To get around that, you would have to make major changes to the text of the play, but a translator is not supposed to do that.

BTW, what language is "pjucaj"? :)
Peer comment(s):

agree Miomira Brankovic : BTW, what language is "ubi"? As far as I know, the correct imperative in both languages is "ubij".
4 hrs
2. & 3. lice jednine aorista: Ubi se covek od prevodjenja ;)
agree dkalinic : Ubi is the same in both languages while "pjucaj" doesn't exist.
7 hrs
agree vorloff
7 hrs
agree Tanja Abramovic (X)
13 hrs
agree Nives
14 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Mislim da je ovo najbolje moguce rjesenje, buduci da se radi o izuzetno specificnim prevodilackim problemima. Hvala, Zeljko"
-1
26 mins

...

It is very difficult to give you an example of those differences. Croatian and Serbian are two different languages, like Spanish and Portuguese, or Czech and Slovakian, and although we understand each other very well, there is some difference in grammar (especially ije/je : e). Ije/je is used in Croatian, although some dialects have "e" instead, and "e" is in Serbian. But in Monte Negro, which is a part of Serbia & Monte Negro federation, "ije" is used quite often as well.
As you can see, it's all quite complicated for a person not living here, or not knowing the language, dialects and accents well, and I hope you'll get more answers from my colleagues who will maybe be able to explain it better to you! :-)


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Note added at 3 hrs 2 mins (2005-01-21 12:55:22 GMT)
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Problem u usporedbi s američkim i britanskim engleskim je u tome što su oba službeno engleski jezik, dok su hrvatski i srpski dva zasebna službena jezika pa je usporedba vrlo teška. Možda su španjolski i portugalski bolji primjer gdje se riječi slično, ali ne jednako pišu te različito izgovaraju, a španjolci i portugalci se sasvim dobro razumiju, osobito portugalci španjolce (iako se često prave da se ne razumiju, ali to su već neki drugi razlozi kojima ovdje nije mjesto :-))
Peer comment(s):

disagree Dragomir Kovacevic : :o) sorry, dva bakrenjaka na vasu odluku da ovdje pisete kako su neki jezici razliciti u mjeri kao spanjolski i portugalski, docim se ljudi na njima ipak uspiju sporazumjeti. jos jedan smajli :o(((
6 hrs
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+2
7 hrs

very difficult concept to translate

I suggest talking to the author if possible to see what solution would be acceptable to her or him. If you do go with the British/Am thing you have the well known difference in pronounciation of things like schedule, tomato, potato, and can get more ideas from articles you can google. The Economist style guide (on their site) covers this a bit too. The challenge is that the author is not using different words, but the same words with a slightly different spelling and pronounciation. The other possibility is contrasting the accents of Southern Americans (with a twang) and Northern Americans (and most others). Whichever choice you go with though, it will not be a perfect solution because this is very difficult to quickly convey to non-linguists. It calls for some extremely creative adaptation, or even circumvention.
Peer comment(s):

agree Tanja Abramovic (X)
3 hrs
Thanks Tanja!
agree dkalinic
16 hrs
Thanks Davor
Something went wrong...
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