Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
dérushage [film / TV / media production]
English translation:
rough assembly [NB: see question for fuller explanation / other options; 'derushing' exists too, in specific technical contexts]
Added to glossary by
Tony M
Jul 11, 2005 14:57
18 yrs ago
18 viewers *
French term
dérushage
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Media / Multimedia
Audio-visual
I believe this is to do with the grading of rushes, but I can't seem to find an equivalent term in English (derushage doesn't seem to be widely used) - perhaps there isn't one, in which case, I need to find the most concise way of translating the word, as it is located on a diagram illustrating the process involved in recording an interview, and space is limited ... Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +1 | rough assembly | Tony M |
5 +2 | derushing | Pierre Renault |
3 +1 | review of the rushes | laurem |
Proposed translations
+1
26 mins
French term (edited):
d�rushage
Selected
rough assembly
I think you'll find this has come up before, you should check the glossary for a very full discussion, since it seems to mean different things to different people / contexts.
I can tell you for sure that it is NOT grading! It might help to pin it down if you could tell us what the previous and next stages are in your flow diagram?
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Note added at 31 mins (2005-07-11 15:28:58 GMT)
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Yes, here\'s the previous glossary entry for you to refer to:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/983423
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Note added at 33 mins (2005-07-11 15:30:56 GMT)
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If laurem\'s definition is correct, then this would encompass the stages of \'logging\' (= visionner et classement...) and \'rough assembly\' (= sélection)
It depends a bit whether this is documentary or fiction film-making, as production techniques often differ.
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Note added at 5 hrs 50 mins (2005-07-11 20:47:57 GMT)
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Looking at some of the Googles for \'derushing\', it seems clear that this may be being used as a specific term, if your filming project involves digital editing.
Empirically, the term appears to be being used for the stage at which the editor (etc.) selects which takes to upload onto the editing computer (in other words, to minimize storgae requirements).
If this is indeed the usage in your context, then it appears that the neologism \'derushing\' has quite come into common usage, and is the appropriate term to use.
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Note added at 4 days (2005-07-15 16:12:08 GMT)
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\'grading rushes\' is WRONG-- this refers to a specific technical process, and should NOT be used merely for selection.
either \'logging & selection\', which is an accurate description of the 2 processes involved, or \'rough assembly\', which kind of implies that some actual \'editing\' is taking place (may or may not be the case?)
\'paper edit\' would be a neat way round it, it means the whole process of making initial editing decisions on paper.
\'rough cut\' is not QUITE the same thing; it implies a slightly later stage of editing, where some basic decisions have already been taken, but shots have not yet been fine-trimmed to their finished length.
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Note added at 4 days (2005-07-16 06:24:35 GMT)
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\"logging rushes\" misses out part of the process --- this might be done by an assistant, it does not necessarily imply any selection process.
I still think your best bet, covering all eventualities and remaining not-too-specific is \'logging and selecting rushes\'; if you HAVE to have a single-word translation, then \'derushing\' is probably best (particularly if it may have some technical relevance, as is increasingly the case with digital).
I repeat that in the old days of film cutting, the \'rough or first assembly\' was NOT strictly the same as a rough-cut or rough edit, though as your colleague so astutely points out, the move over to digital has changed a lot of the old workflow patterns.
It\'s interesting that in all this, everyone seems quite happy to keep the word \'rushes\', which has quite departed from its original (and now redundant!) meaning... probably just reflects the \'rush\' (both meanings!) that always seems to surround anything in the film biz :-)
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Note added at 4 days (2005-07-16 06:26:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It might help to find out if you can more about the technical processes involved in this particular production or company, in case the \'dérushage\' here is indeed being used in its new, specific digital meaning...
I can tell you for sure that it is NOT grading! It might help to pin it down if you could tell us what the previous and next stages are in your flow diagram?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2005-07-11 15:28:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, here\'s the previous glossary entry for you to refer to:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/983423
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 mins (2005-07-11 15:30:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
If laurem\'s definition is correct, then this would encompass the stages of \'logging\' (= visionner et classement...) and \'rough assembly\' (= sélection)
It depends a bit whether this is documentary or fiction film-making, as production techniques often differ.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 50 mins (2005-07-11 20:47:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Looking at some of the Googles for \'derushing\', it seems clear that this may be being used as a specific term, if your filming project involves digital editing.
Empirically, the term appears to be being used for the stage at which the editor (etc.) selects which takes to upload onto the editing computer (in other words, to minimize storgae requirements).
If this is indeed the usage in your context, then it appears that the neologism \'derushing\' has quite come into common usage, and is the appropriate term to use.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2005-07-15 16:12:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
\'grading rushes\' is WRONG-- this refers to a specific technical process, and should NOT be used merely for selection.
either \'logging & selection\', which is an accurate description of the 2 processes involved, or \'rough assembly\', which kind of implies that some actual \'editing\' is taking place (may or may not be the case?)
\'paper edit\' would be a neat way round it, it means the whole process of making initial editing decisions on paper.
\'rough cut\' is not QUITE the same thing; it implies a slightly later stage of editing, where some basic decisions have already been taken, but shots have not yet been fine-trimmed to their finished length.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2005-07-16 06:24:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
\"logging rushes\" misses out part of the process --- this might be done by an assistant, it does not necessarily imply any selection process.
I still think your best bet, covering all eventualities and remaining not-too-specific is \'logging and selecting rushes\'; if you HAVE to have a single-word translation, then \'derushing\' is probably best (particularly if it may have some technical relevance, as is increasingly the case with digital).
I repeat that in the old days of film cutting, the \'rough or first assembly\' was NOT strictly the same as a rough-cut or rough edit, though as your colleague so astutely points out, the move over to digital has changed a lot of the old workflow patterns.
It\'s interesting that in all this, everyone seems quite happy to keep the word \'rushes\', which has quite departed from its original (and now redundant!) meaning... probably just reflects the \'rush\' (both meanings!) that always seems to surround anything in the film biz :-)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2005-07-16 06:26:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It might help to find out if you can more about the technical processes involved in this particular production or company, in case the \'dérushage\' here is indeed being used in its new, specific digital meaning...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Bruce Berger
: Or "rough edit", a "quick and dirty" screening of the rushes from the previous day. With hi-def instant playback, the idea of rushes (which is what the lab did overnite to get it out in time for the AM screening) has kinda' fallen by the wayside.
3 hrs
|
Thanks, Bruce! Strictly speaking, I think the 'dérushage' refers more to the first assembly, which is usually one step prior to a 'rough cut', in my own exp. But these days, ways of working have become so blurred...
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I'm going to accept your answer, Dusty, as it's been such a great help to me - thank you so much. I think I could put "rough assembly", but I'm going to play safe and put "selecting rushes" (unfortunately, I don't have enough room for "logging and selecting rushes"). For some reason, I'm a bit wary of the word "derushing" - maybe once it becomes more widely used (which I'm sure it will) I'd be happier about it. Thanks once again for such a helpful and informative answer!"
+1
10 mins
French term (edited):
d�rushage
review of the rushes
Declined
Le dérushage, c'est le classement et le répertoire de tous les plans et de tous les sons
L’étape du dérushage consiste à visionner les cassettes, pour sélectionner les meilleurs plans
L’étape du dérushage consiste à visionner les cassettes, pour sélectionner les meilleurs plans
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
: right
14 mins
|
thanks!
|
Comment: "Thanks for your help - this is very close to the term I decided to use. I may be wrong, but I'm not sure "review" includes the idea of "selection"."
+2
19 mins
French term (edited):
d�rushage
derushing
Declined
Dérushage involves sorting the previous day's rushes.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
AbdulHameed Al Hadidi
2 hrs
|
agree |
Tony M
: Well, I wouldn't initially have thought so, but this term certainly seems very common, so if it fits Asker's context, then I think it's fine
5 hrs
|
Comment: "I do think this word is going to become more widely used, but in this instance I'm going to use a term that will be more accessible to non-experts in the field. Thank you for your suggestion."
Discussion
Our audio-visual specialist has responded to my suggestions of "rough assembly", "rough cut" or "rough edit" with the following:
"A priori, (apr�s avoir jet� un oeil sur quelques sites sp�cialis�s post-production vid�o en anglais) je dirais que le "rough edit/cut/assembly" concerne principalement la phase de "montage virtuel" pour diff�rencier du "final cut". En effet, avec les technologies num�riques, aller et venir du d�rushage au produit final est plus ou moins possible si l'ensemble du travail peut s'effectuer sur la m�me machine et avec les m�mes personnes, ou si le workflow "parle" la m�me technologie.
Autrefois, � l'�re de l'analogique et donc de la bande magn�tique, on ne pouvait pas revenir aussi rapidement sur des montages sans tout recommencer � z�ro ou solliciter � nouveau des personnes qui avaient d�j� �t� factur�es pour faire leur travail une premi�re fois.
C'est pour cela qu'aujourd'hui le montage est plus souple pour le r�alisateur qui en est responsable, car il peut se permettre d'�tre plus exigeant sur le "work in progress" du montage avant de "valider" le final cut qui servira de "master copy", et ce, m�me si tout le projet semble �tre presque achev�. Donc, pour r�sumer, la notion de rough est situ� dans la phase de montage au moment o� l'on peut encore chipoter deci-del� quelques secondes de plans, de fondues, d'incrustations, d'effets sp�ciaux, etc.
En fait, pour �tre pr�cis, on peut dire que le d�rushage, depuis la lente migration de l'audiovisuel de l'analogique au 100% num�rique, n'a pas vraiment chang�, sinon qu'au lieu de consid�rer un travail n�cessitant du temps provoquant l'usure de m�dias p�rissables, on doit � pr�sent plut�t r�fl�chir au temps, � l'espace de disque dur et le niveau de qualit� que l'on s'accorde � consacrer � tel ou tel projet. Mais �a reste du d�rushage, comme un potier d�grossissant une masse d'argile pour appliquer et fignoler ensuite les garnitures � l'aide d'un petit couteau (le couteau serait alors le banc de montage)."
So I presume he's saying that the "rough" bit comes later. In which case, would "logging rushes" be a nice solution? Of course, there's still the idea of using "derushing" in English ...
Phew! And all I wanted was a nice translation! ;-)
Action d'extraire les prises de vue brutes effectuées pendant le tournage pour les utiliser lors du processus de montage. Du moment qu'on a enregistré de la "matière vidéo", on dispose de choses qui peuvent s'avérer complètement inutile (et donc être une perte de temps et d'espace de stockage) pour la procédure de montage. Le dérushage permet donc de sélectionner virtuellement (indexation numérique) ou textuellement (une feuille de script rédigée par le réalisateur indiquant les parties du tournage que le monteur n'a pas à visionner ou utiliser). Maintenant le dérushage peut retenir de la "matière vidéo" que le monteur n'utilisera peut-être jamais... dérusher revient à "dégrossir" la matière première.
I found “grading the rushes” on this site: http://www.rossiterandco.com/Corporate-Video-Production/Vide... and it certainly seems to correspond to the above explanation. But it also gives “rough cut”, so could this or “rough assembly” be the term to choose, and are these two terms synonyms (or is one a more “official” term)?
Any more advice would be greatly appreciated!