Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Krad

English translation:

PTW (powered two-wheeler)

Added to glossary by jccantrell
May 24, 2020 19:56
3 yrs ago
44 viewers *
German term

Krad

German to English Tech/Engineering Automotive / Cars & Trucks
OK, folks, I know this stands for Kraftrad. My problem is that all the references say it is a motorcycle, usually with a military connotation. However, I am doing a translation of a police vehicle database and in the description field, I hit this:

KRAD, MOTORRAD, O.LB.

So, I know that this is a motorcycle without performance restrictions, but how do I fit KRAD into it?

Two-wheeled motorized vehicle is a bit long, but I am open to suggestions.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Change log

May 24, 2020 20:31: Ramey Rieger (X) changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Jun 4, 2020 15:11: jccantrell changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/4018">jccantrell's</a> old entry - "Krad"" to ""PTW (powered tow-wheeler)""

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Erik Freitag, Steffen Walter, Ramey Rieger (X)

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Discussion

Björn Vrooman May 25, 2020:
PS2 There is, ofc, MCY. See p. 4 of this doc: https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/558010/Plate_F...

The above is also used for some kind of database, I think. Not sure whether that'd work in this context, though.
Björn Vrooman May 25, 2020:
PS The issue is that the smaller versions are called motor-driven cycles (MDCs) or mopeds or scooters in the States, e.g., https://itd.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2-Wheel_and...

You can find the same for other states as well. I like Kim's PTW reference, though I'm afraid it's EU-specific (the IMMA is based in Geneva). You could use something like M1/M2 (I'm not sure why almost everyone is trying to suggest some excruciatingly long and non-abbreviated term). But the numbers aren't the same everywhere. See California and Virginia's classification systems:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/motorcycles/motorcy...
https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/drivers/#motorcycle.asp

2W could stand in for two-wheeled, but there isn't much else you could add. Maybe jccantrell could simply create an abbreviation and define it somewhere.

Best wishes
Björn Vrooman May 25, 2020:
@Yorkshireman I don't have much time (taking a break), but I'm afraid Erik is right and you got this really wrong. I'm not even sure why; I thought this was quite clear.

KRAD, as in Kraftrad, is the higher-order category and Motorrad the subcategory. Here is a reference (if it's yours, jccantrell, tell me, though I don't think so):
https://kfz-innung-schwaben.de/fileadmin/resources/intern/te...

See p.2, where it says: "KRAFTRAD O.LB.," then "alter Führerschein" and
"KRAFTRAD O.LB.
KRAD, MOTORRAD O.LB
KRAD, M.BW, MOTORRAD O.LB
KRAD, ROLLER O.LB
KRAD, M.BW. ROLLER O. LB"

See what I mean? Basically, there are two defs of KRAD, one being the "generic" one Eric provided and the following: "...mit einem Hubraum von mehr als 50 ccm oder mit einer durch die Bauart bestimmten Höchstgeschwindigkeit von mehr als 45 km/h (vgl. § 2 Nr.9 der Fahrzeug-Zulassungsverordnung)..." https://wirtschaftslexikon.gabler.de/definition/kraftrad-kra...

Light motorcycle doesn't even factor in here somewhere. The above references the following: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/fzv_2011/__2.html

Nothing to do with mopeds either.

Best
Yorkshireman May 25, 2020:
UK classifications This actually confirms Ramey's answer (at least for the UK)
Entry level to motorcycling at age 16 is the moped, a motorcycle of engine capacity no greater than 50 cc restricted to a maximum design speed of 50 km/h (31 mph).
At age 17 the rider may have a "light motorcycle" with an engine up to 125 cc and a power output not exceeding 11 kW (15 hp). Only a CBT certificate, obtained within the past two years, and a provisional licence is needed to ride a learner motorcycle with an L-plate. After passing a test on a 125 cc machine, riders will be restricted to ride a "large restricted motorcycle", which has a maximum power output of 25 kW (34 hp). After two years this restriction is lifted and any size or power of motorcycle may be ridden.

For riders over age 21 there is a direct access route to gaining a licence to ride a "large motorcycle" of any engine capacity or power,[8] which allows somebody with no motorcycle experience to train and pass a test in around five days.
Yorkshireman May 24, 2020:
For the police, insurance companies and licensing authorities, the classifications are based on engine capacity and speed limitations.

Richard Stephen May 24, 2020:
Motorbike? Isn't this meant like: Motorcycle/motorbike, all output classes?
or maybe Motorcycle/other two-wheeled motorized vehicle.
When I see "without performance limitation" my first thought is a vehicle with some sort of restrictor or governor. Perhaps something like "all performance classes" would convey the actual meaning better.
Kim Metzger May 24, 2020:
PTW The term “Powered Two-Wheeler” (PTW) covers a wide diversity of vehicles. The products are divided into different segments such as moped, scooter, street, classic, super-sport, touring, custom, supermoto and off-road motorcycles. http://www.immamotorcycles.org/?q=about/ptw
Erik Freitag May 24, 2020:
Hierarchy I can't offer a translation, but maybe this helps:

The terms are hierarchic. "Krad" (indeed short for Kraftrad) is the generic term for any motorized two-wheeled vehicle (and itself a hyponym, in all likelihood of "Kraftfahrzeuge"). "Motorrad" then is a subcategory of "Krad" and narrows this in a bit further (excluding, for example, motor scooters, mopeds etc.)
O. LB. ("ohne Leistungsbeschränkung") is the next level and allows to differentiate between motorcycles of different power-to-weight ratios.

If don't know if you want to map this to a different legal system. I believe, regulations differ from state to state in the US?

Proposed translations

+1
20 hrs
Selected

PTW

The term “Powered Two-Wheeler” (PTW) covers a wide diversity of vehicles. The products are divided into different segments such as moped, scooter, street, classic, super-sport, touring, custom, supermoto and off-road motorcycles. http://www.immamotorcycles.org/?q=about/ptw
Peer comment(s):

agree Erik Freitag : This seems like a good solution indeed.
22 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Hi folks. I did not think there would be sooo many answers when I asked this question. Thanks to EVERYBODY who tossed something out. I went with Kim's answer because there are so many different choices, depending on your country. California has M1 and M2 for these, but there are so many and PTW seems to cover them all. Thanks again."
34 mins

moped

I always thought a Krad was a moped, smaller than a motorcycle. Anyway, here's an interesting site that might help:
https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/types-of-motorcycl...
Peer comment(s):

neutral Yorkshireman : It certainly is a Krad. Take a look at my discussion entry - Your answer may well be right
17 hrs
Doesn't really rev me up, either.
Something went wrong...
-1
1 hr

Light motorcycle

On the TÜV-website, the different driving licence classes for Germany describe it as a light motorcycle
Peer comment(s):

disagree Erik Freitag : Not only does this not fit the context, nor is there any hint in the source you quote that would hint in that direction. Could you elaborate?/ But "Motorrad" is the HIGHEST category! "Light motorcycle" would be "Leichtkraftrad".
17 hrs
The context is classification of motorcycles for policing purposes i.e. speeding, illegal modification or similar - a moped or a light motorcycle describes the lowest categories See discussion entry
Something went wrong...
+1
7 hrs

motorcycle

a single translation for both terms, because
this is a data base which needs to "capture" references in police reports over time and territory, where some old fashioned officer (in ex-GDR ?)might write Krad in the report, and a younger one Mororrade
Peer comment(s):

agree Alexander Schleber (X) : This is the translation sauggested by Ernst, Wörterbuch d. Industriellen Technik. I tend to think that "Motorad O.B." is simply a definiton of "Krad".
5 hrs
agree Johannes Gleim : https://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=10...
9 hrs
disagree Yorkshireman : These are categories for police actions in case of infringements of the law. A generic doesn't help at all.
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
7 hrs

motorcycle

last word Motorrad
Peer comment(s):

disagree Yorkshireman : These are categories for police actions in case of infringements of the law. A generic doesn't help at all.
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
9 hrs

two-wheeled motorized vehicle

I think your own suggestion "Two-wheeled motorized vehicle" actually does the trick very well, as it allows to reproduce the tree-like structure of the source text.

If the information were actually organized as a tree (instead of a comma-separated list), it would be easier to shorten this to "two-wheeled", as "motorized vehicle" would be the parent node, but maybe this works here as well.




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Note added at 10 hrs (2020-05-25 05:59:24 GMT)
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Note added at 19 hrs (2020-05-25 15:02:00 GMT)
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I see where the confusion might come from. I understood the asker to be looking for a specific translation for "Krad" in the given context. If, however, a translation for the full string ("KRAD, MOTORRAD, O.LB.") is wanted and the tiered structure can be ignored, than that would be something along the lines of "motorcycle, no power restrictions" (as Richard Stephen) suggested.

Moped or light motorcycle are the exact opposite: motorcycle classes WITH power restrictions.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2020-05-25 15:59:23 GMT)
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Gosh. I'll try again: "... then that would be something along the lines of "motorcycle, no power restrictions" (as Richard Stephen suggested)."
Peer comment(s):

agree Chris Pr
6 hrs
Thanks!
disagree Yorkshireman : A generic term doesn't help to distinguish between motorcycle classes You supplied the generic as an answer - The asker appears to wish to distinguish between the various classes (as does the law)
8 hrs
I believe you haven't read or fully understood the question and/or my answer. "Krad" is as generic a term as you can get. The distinguishment is done by the following terms/subcategories, i.e. "Motorrad", and, further, "O. LB.".
Something went wrong...
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