Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
tour surélevée
English translation:
"a true tower which replaces...." [in this instance]
Added to glossary by
Christopher Crockett
Aug 11, 2008 09:28
15 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term
Miranda Joubioux (X)
tour surélevée
French to English
Art/Literary
History
/ architecture
Context
La fondation de la chapelle doit remonter aux premiers temps du Christianisme en 1778-1788. La chapelle flamboyante du XVIè siècle a été rasée et rebâtie grâce au Comte de Kergariou, châtelain de Beauregard. Au cours des travaux, des cercueils gallo-romains de 2m20 en tuiles (d'une communauté chrétienne des IIIè-IVè siècle) ont été mis à jour sous le dallage. Ce lieu est consacré à la Vierge depuis le Moyen-Age. L'édifice actuel possède une véritable tour surélevée après un cyclone qui fit souffrir la flèche en 1895.
I'm trying to work out whether this refers to a specific architectural structure that I'm not familiar with, or whether the hurricane was what lifted it.
Any help would be appreciated.
La fondation de la chapelle doit remonter aux premiers temps du Christianisme en 1778-1788. La chapelle flamboyante du XVIè siècle a été rasée et rebâtie grâce au Comte de Kergariou, châtelain de Beauregard. Au cours des travaux, des cercueils gallo-romains de 2m20 en tuiles (d'une communauté chrétienne des IIIè-IVè siècle) ont été mis à jour sous le dallage. Ce lieu est consacré à la Vierge depuis le Moyen-Age. L'édifice actuel possède une véritable tour surélevée après un cyclone qui fit souffrir la flèche en 1895.
I'm trying to work out whether this refers to a specific architectural structure that I'm not familiar with, or whether the hurricane was what lifted it.
Any help would be appreciated.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | "a true tower which replaces...." |
Christopher Crockett
|
| 4 +7 | raised tower |
berg
|
| 5 | rebuilt and raised tower |
kashew
|
References
| CHATEAU DE LA SERVAYRIE A MOURET Le C... |
kashew
|
Change log
Aug 12, 2008 13:01: Christopher Crockett Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
3 hrs
Christopher Crockett
Native in English
Specializes in field
M.A., Ph.D. Historian/Art Historian
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
100
Selected
"a true tower which replaces...."
Kashew's first suggestion, of "a spire replaced by a tower," seems right to me.
L'édifice actuel possède une véritable tour surélevée après un cyclone qui fit souffrir la flèche en 1895.
"The present building possesses a true tower which replaces an original spire destroyed by a severe windstorm in 1895."
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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-08-11 12:39:42 GMT)
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Hurricaines being somewhat rare in Brittany, "severe windstorm" seems best for "cyclone" --"force 10 gale" would be anachronistic, to say nothing of difficult to document, at this late point in time.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-11 14:17:54 GMT)
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Usually thought of as a "steeple" --the tall, pointed "roof" of a tower-- this (original) "flèche" might have been a relatively short, mostly wooden structure built solely for the purpose of housing the bells of the church. Such relatively less substantial (and, therefore, more fragile) structures were surely more common in the m.a., but few have survived into our own times.
Being of wood, it would be particularly suceptable to wind damage.
After the 1895 disaster, it was replace by a "real" tower, presumably in stone.
Re the use of "hurricane" [avoid "hurricaine" at all costs], cf. the OED:
"A name given primarily to the violent wind-storms of the West Indies, which are cyclones of diameter of from 50 to 1000 miles, wherein the air moves with a velocity of from 80 to 130 miles an hour round a central calm space, which with the whole system advances in a straight or curved track..."
I doubt if that's what hit Brittany in 1895.
It was probably "just" a Force 10 Gale.
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Note added at 7 hrs (2008-08-11 17:05:36 GMT)
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In the case of the BBC site reporting on the 1987 storm, I think that "Hurricane winds batter southern England" means "Hurricane force winds" (i.e., winds over 75-80 mph), not really "A Hurricane."
Perhaps the Brits actually call these storms "hurricanes" --but, for U.S. speakers it just sounds a bit strange, since our hurricanes are associated with the Gulf of Mexico and the islands/coasts surrounding it and, ocassionally, the Atlantic coast as far north as New England (but always comming up from the south).
I was in France the winter that this storm hit England --I believe that was the same one which got at least as far inland as Chartres and blew part of the roof off the cathedral. I've never looked to see if it originated as a (true) hurricane in the South Atlantic, moved up the coast of North America and crossed the ocean below Greenland.
I severely doubt it, however: true hurricanes are "powered" by warm water; once they get over land or over colder water they just run out of steam pretty quickly.
This October '87 storm surely began life north west of Britain.
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Note added at 7 hrs (2008-08-11 17:09:45 GMT)
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Well, "véritable" doesn't *mean* stone, but it does *imply* stone --it's a case of "a 'real' tower" or "a 'true' tower", as opposed to "just" a fleche, the latter being a pointed, roofed structure, essentially of wood.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2008-08-11 17:11:20 GMT)
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The tower which replaced the fleche could have been in brick, I suppose --but probably not in Brittany. Brick towers are generally in Italy, the Low Countries, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2008-08-11 17:21:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In the absence of any visual aids, I have been thinking in terms of a free-standing, wooden structure with a high, pointed roof for this "fleche" --these are quite rare survivals of a type which must have been much more common, esp. on modest (e.g., village) churches.
But, it might well have been a shorter tower --no taller than the nave wall of the church-- with a "fleche" above it which held the bells. The windstorm destroyed this upper structure, which was replaced by a "true" tower in stone (built on the old foundation structure).
L'édifice actuel possède une véritable tour surélevée après un cyclone qui fit souffrir la flèche en 1895.
"The present building possesses a true tower which replaces an original spire destroyed by a severe windstorm in 1895."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2008-08-11 12:39:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Hurricaines being somewhat rare in Brittany, "severe windstorm" seems best for "cyclone" --"force 10 gale" would be anachronistic, to say nothing of difficult to document, at this late point in time.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-08-11 14:17:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Usually thought of as a "steeple" --the tall, pointed "roof" of a tower-- this (original) "flèche" might have been a relatively short, mostly wooden structure built solely for the purpose of housing the bells of the church. Such relatively less substantial (and, therefore, more fragile) structures were surely more common in the m.a., but few have survived into our own times.
Being of wood, it would be particularly suceptable to wind damage.
After the 1895 disaster, it was replace by a "real" tower, presumably in stone.
Re the use of "hurricane" [avoid "hurricaine" at all costs], cf. the OED:
"A name given primarily to the violent wind-storms of the West Indies, which are cyclones of diameter of from 50 to 1000 miles, wherein the air moves with a velocity of from 80 to 130 miles an hour round a central calm space, which with the whole system advances in a straight or curved track..."
I doubt if that's what hit Brittany in 1895.
It was probably "just" a Force 10 Gale.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2008-08-11 17:05:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In the case of the BBC site reporting on the 1987 storm, I think that "Hurricane winds batter southern England" means "Hurricane force winds" (i.e., winds over 75-80 mph), not really "A Hurricane."
Perhaps the Brits actually call these storms "hurricanes" --but, for U.S. speakers it just sounds a bit strange, since our hurricanes are associated with the Gulf of Mexico and the islands/coasts surrounding it and, ocassionally, the Atlantic coast as far north as New England (but always comming up from the south).
I was in France the winter that this storm hit England --I believe that was the same one which got at least as far inland as Chartres and blew part of the roof off the cathedral. I've never looked to see if it originated as a (true) hurricane in the South Atlantic, moved up the coast of North America and crossed the ocean below Greenland.
I severely doubt it, however: true hurricanes are "powered" by warm water; once they get over land or over colder water they just run out of steam pretty quickly.
This October '87 storm surely began life north west of Britain.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2008-08-11 17:09:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Well, "véritable" doesn't *mean* stone, but it does *imply* stone --it's a case of "a 'real' tower" or "a 'true' tower", as opposed to "just" a fleche, the latter being a pointed, roofed structure, essentially of wood.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2008-08-11 17:11:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The tower which replaced the fleche could have been in brick, I suppose --but probably not in Brittany. Brick towers are generally in Italy, the Low Countries, etc.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2008-08-11 17:21:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In the absence of any visual aids, I have been thinking in terms of a free-standing, wooden structure with a high, pointed roof for this "fleche" --these are quite rare survivals of a type which must have been much more common, esp. on modest (e.g., village) churches.
But, it might well have been a shorter tower --no taller than the nave wall of the church-- with a "fleche" above it which held the bells. The windstorm destroyed this upper structure, which was replaced by a "true" tower in stone (built on the old foundation structure).
Note from asker:
| Hi Christopher, however, oddly phrased it might be, I believe that you are probably right. The tower replaced the spire. My research shows that there was a hurricane in that year and that it caused quite a bit of damage. |
| My Shorter OED (2007) gives A tropical cyclone, esp. a W. Indian one; any violent and destructive storm; Meteorology a wind of hurricane force. |
| There was one that hit Brittany in 1987. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/16/newsid_2533000/2533219.stm |
| Yest I think that véritable must mean "stone" rather than "wood". |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks Christopher, your answers were much appreciated and helped me find my translation. "
+7
4 mins
raised tower
it seems to me that the tower was raised following the storm during which the steeple was damaged
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
cjohnstone
1 min
|
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thanks Catherine
|
|
| agree |
emiledgar
: Yes, "surelever une tour" to make a tower taller.
3 mins
|
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Thanks Emile
|
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| agree |
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
5 mins
|
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Thanks Bea
|
|
| neutral |
kashew
: I like your explan. The lower remains of the church-tower extended upwards?
20 mins
|
|
yes, it was raised above the original level, it seems
|
|
| agree |
Sébastien Ricciardi
44 mins
|
|
Thanks Sebastien
|
|
| agree |
Arnold T.
1 hr
|
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Thanks Arnold
|
|
| agree |
Melissa McMahon
: making the "veritable" = "original"?
3 hrs
|
|
not really Melissa, veritable in this context would mean truly
|
|
| agree |
Bourth (X)
: But "tower raised after". Maybe "véritable" because it is surprising to have a "tower" (military, defensive in appearance) is surprising in a chapel?
5 hrs
|
7 hrs
rebuilt and raised tower
/
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Christopher Crockett
: I really don't think that it's a question of any "rebuilding" --rather a replacement, a "true" tower replacing a "steeple" or wooden bell tower (fleche).
23 mins
|
Reference comments
38 mins
Reference:
CHATEAU DE LA SERVAYRIE A MOURET
Le Château de La Servayrie est remarquable pour présenter une véritable architecture composite, riche de 8 siècles...Si plus de 30 générations se sont succédé dans cette demeure, aucune n’a détruit ce que la précédente avait réalisé... Ce monument se présente comme une superposition des grandes périodes de notre histoire architecturale.
MOYEN AGE
C’est au XII° siècle que Bernard d’Entraygues, seigneur d’Entraygues et de Servières s’installe à Mouret et fait construire la tour romane, qu’il habitera ainsi que ses descendants pendant plusieurs siècles. Parfaitement conservée, elle est aujourd’hui un rare et précieux témoin de l’architecture romane et civile de cette époque, incarnant dans le paysage l’important pouvoir de son Seigneur.
RENAISSANCE
La guerre de cent ans a conduit l’héritière des Entraygues à affecter la tour, SURELEVEE de trois nouveaux étages, au refuge de sa population, tant l’insécurité est grande dans ces campagnes reculées. La guerre terminée, elle est définitivement abandonnée au profit du logis qui lui est adossé… L’architecture militaire est abandonnée au profit de celle de Vitruve faisant de La Servayrie une demeure de plaisance avec son grand escalier d’honneur, ses galeries, ses vastes salles lumineuses : Salle d’apparat, salle d’honneur, galerie.
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Note added at 39 mins (2008-08-11 10:07:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here it's clearly an extension!
Le Château de La Servayrie est remarquable pour présenter une véritable architecture composite, riche de 8 siècles...Si plus de 30 générations se sont succédé dans cette demeure, aucune n’a détruit ce que la précédente avait réalisé... Ce monument se présente comme une superposition des grandes périodes de notre histoire architecturale.
MOYEN AGE
C’est au XII° siècle que Bernard d’Entraygues, seigneur d’Entraygues et de Servières s’installe à Mouret et fait construire la tour romane, qu’il habitera ainsi que ses descendants pendant plusieurs siècles. Parfaitement conservée, elle est aujourd’hui un rare et précieux témoin de l’architecture romane et civile de cette époque, incarnant dans le paysage l’important pouvoir de son Seigneur.
RENAISSANCE
La guerre de cent ans a conduit l’héritière des Entraygues à affecter la tour, SURELEVEE de trois nouveaux étages, au refuge de sa population, tant l’insécurité est grande dans ces campagnes reculées. La guerre terminée, elle est définitivement abandonnée au profit du logis qui lui est adossé… L’architecture militaire est abandonnée au profit de celle de Vitruve faisant de La Servayrie une demeure de plaisance avec son grand escalier d’honneur, ses galeries, ses vastes salles lumineuses : Salle d’apparat, salle d’honneur, galerie.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2008-08-11 10:07:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Here it's clearly an extension!
Note from asker:
| I saw that reference Kashew. Thanks. I felt that it referred to castle fortifications, rather than to churches, so I left it to the side. That said, I have no idea how one would translate the kind of tower in the picture! |
Discussion
She told me that she understood that the tower had been rebuilt and made taller!