| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | ChatGPT as a potential tool for translators Thread poster: James McVay
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James McVay 
United States
Local time: 10:04
Russian to English
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After seeing a lot of discussion about the use of ChatGPT to write emails, essays, and even computer code, I decided to investigate it to see whether it might be of use to professional translators. I have discovered some capabilities that others might be interested in and decided to share what I'm learning. I've only scratched the surface of ChatGPT's capabilities, so comments are welcome.
The first question I wanted to answer was whether ChatGPT can produce better translations than... See more After seeing a lot of discussion about the use of ChatGPT to write emails, essays, and even computer code, I decided to investigate it to see whether it might be of use to professional translators. I have discovered some capabilities that others might be interested in and decided to share what I'm learning. I've only scratched the surface of ChatGPT's capabilities, so comments are welcome.
The first question I wanted to answer was whether ChatGPT can produce better translations than Google Translate, DeepL, and Bing. Without going into detail about my methodology, I will just say that the answer is a qualified "no." More interesting than my methodology, I think, is why I qualify my “no.”
The difference between ChatGPT as an MT system and other MT systems is that one can write a prompt instructing ChatGPT on the style of the translation. I found that doing so can improve readability. Here's an example. First, I'll copy and paste a translated excerpt from a Ukrainian news article where the prompt was simply "Translate:". (ChatGPT recognized the source language and assumed I wanted it translated into English.)
Chesurevaty also noted that the enemy has significant resources, but while in the summer, shelling was carried out across the entire front line, now the enemy concentrates its attacks on specific directions. Record shelling was observed during the week on the Lymanske and Luhanske directions, as well as in the Kremenna area, where 345 incidents were recorded in the last day, the spokesperson reported.
In turn, the defense forces are using high-precision weapons to significantly reduce the enemy's logistical capabilities, he added. Source: https://censor.net/ua/n3399733
Then I gave ChatGPT the following prompt: “Translate the following text in a journalistic style suitable for publication in a newspaper:". Here's what ChatGPT returned with that prompt:
Cherevaty also noted that the enemy has significant resources. However, while in the summer, attacks were carried out across the entire front line, now the enemy is concentrating its strikes on specific directions. Record shelling during the week was observed on the Lymanske and Luhanske directions, as well as in the Kremenna area, where 345 shelling incidents were recorded in the last 24 hours, according to the spokesperson.
Meanwhile, the defense forces are trying to significantly reduce the enemy's logistical capabilities through the use of precision weapons, he added. Source: https://censor.net/ua/n3399733
There are some significant readability differences between the two versions, with the second version being a definite improvement. Note that ChatGPT spelled Cherevaty incorrectly in the first version and corrected it in the second. My only edit would be to change "while" in the second sentence to "whereas" and remove the comma after "in the summer" — but maybe that's just me.
If you're interested and able to compare the translations with the original Ukrainian, here it is:
Череватий також відзначив, що ворог має значні ресурси, проте якщо вліткуобстріли велися по всій лінії фронту, то зараз противник концентрує удари на конкретних напрямках. Рекордні обстріли упродовж тижня спостерігались на Лиманському та Луганському напрямках, а також у районі Кремінної, де за останню добу їх зафіксовано 345, повідомив речник.
Сили оборони, своєю чергою, за допомогою високоточного озброєння намагаються суттєво зменшити логістичні можливості ворога, додав він. Джерело: https://censor.net/ua/n3399733
[Edited at 2023-02-14 17:38 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-02-14 17:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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James McVay wrote:
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There are some significant readability differences between the two versions ...
... the second version being a definite improvement.
Those bold statements merit a few words of justification on your part.
For starters, what does 'readability' mean to you?
And what constitutes a 'definite improvement'?
I cannot comprehend the original Ukrainian text but, frankly, knowing that AI filters and regurgitates stuff written by others, I would be more included to trust a 'generalist' translation constructed from sources that are less likely to have a political axe to grind (even if I have to paraphrase some parts in order to make sense of it) , than one supposedly tailored to a 'journalistic style suitable for publication in a newspaper' where there's a significant likelihood that it will be virializing the political bias that's in evidence every time we open the newspaper or tune in to a newscast.
Apart from that, I suggest that the results of your investigations would be more reliable if you examined texts on less politically-charged subjects, on which there is a fair measure of international/intercultural consensus. Otherwise, the emotions and prejudice of the readers will, consciously or not, bias their appraisal of the 'readability' and other characteristics of any text.
JL
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James McVay wrote:
My only edit would be to change "while" in the second sentence to "whereas" and remove the comma after "in the summer" — but maybe that's just me.
So you have no objection to the "on" in "Record shelling during the week was observed on the Lymanske and Luhanske directions"?
| | | | | Just piling in… | Feb 15, 2023 |
What’s wrong with “while”?
I don’t think the two texts are noticeably different in style btw. But I’ve seen worse English from many a human translator, which is perhaps the key point.
[Edited at 2023-02-15 08:14 GMT]
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:04
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Place before time | Feb 15, 2023 |
What bugs me about both attempts is how ChatGPT puts time before mode and/or place (and even before the verb), all of which is unnatural in English. Here is a more natural-sounding word order for the first sentence in English:
Cherevaty also noted that the enemy has significant resources,
but while shelling was conducted along the entire front line in the summer,... See more What bugs me about both attempts is how ChatGPT puts time before mode and/or place (and even before the verb), all of which is unnatural in English. Here is a more natural-sounding word order for the first sentence in English:
Cherevaty also noted that the enemy has significant resources,
but while shelling was conducted along the entire front line in the summer,
the enemy is now concentrating its attacks on specific directions.
What's more, if I were to edit this text for general consumption on a news site, I would move "According to the spokesperson" in the second sentence to the front of the sentence. Alternatively, "the spokesperson said" could work at the end of the sentence, but only if we can split that sentence into two, so that the text preceding "the spokesperson said" is shorter. Having "according to the spokesperson" at the end of a very long and complex sentence is... hmm... odd, in English.
Record shelling was observed during the week on the Lymanske and Luhanske directions,
the spokesperson said. The Kremenna area saw 345 shelling incidents in the last 24 hours.
or even:
Record shelling was observed on the Lymanske and Luhanske directions during the week,
the spokesperson said. The Kremenna area saw 345 shelling incidents in the last 24 hours alone.
or, if the author wants to stress "during the week", it can be moved to the very start of sentence, which doesn't have to follow the "place before time" rule as it is a standalone phrase:
During the week, record shelling was observed on the Lymanske and Luhanske directions,
the spokesperson said. The Kremenna area saw 345 shelling incidents in the last 24 hours alone.
I understand that from a journalistic perspective it is very important that "the spokesperson said" is connected to this paragraph, but in English, it would be implied that the sentence about Kremenna is also something that "the spokesperson said" even though the phrase precedes it, as long as it's part of the same paragraph and immediately following the phrase.
[Edited at 2023-02-15 08:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nikolay Novitskiy
Russian Federation
Local time: 19:04
Member (2018)
English to Russian
| ChatGPT is... | Feb 15, 2023 |
ChatGPT is a wonderful thing, really! I'm so upset because translation quality is astonishing, and ChatGPT can't be accessed in Russia! I suggest our rivals sack all their military translators and coders, and fully replace them with ChatGPT! The sooner the better
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 16:04
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Significant readability differences? | Feb 15, 2023 |
Changing a couple of words with their synonyms is not a significant readability difference. You need to reorganize the whole sentence completely for a *significant* readability difference.
| | | | Marina Aleyeva
Israel
Local time: 17:04
Member (2006)
English to Russian
+ ...
| Wrong names of localities | Feb 15, 2023 |
[quote]James McVay wrote:
Cherevaty also noted that the enemy has significant resources. However, while in the summer, attacks were carried out across the entire front line, now the enemy is concentrating its strikes on specific directions. Record shelling during the week was observed on the Lymanske and Luhanske directions, as well as in the Kremenna area, where 345 shelling incidents were recorded in the last 24 hours, according to the spokesperson.
All the names of localities are wrong. These are Lyman and Luhansk directions, not Lymanske and Luhanske, which are small settlements, with Lymanske being located in a different region. And it's Kreminna, not Kremenna. But all of these, and the "directions" (axes), can be easily fixed by someone equipped with sufficient knowledge and an ability to actually read and understand the source.
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James McVay
United States
Local time: 10:04
Russian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | People are missing the point | Feb 15, 2023 |
I think a lot of the people replying to this post are reacting to the idea that artificial intelligence-driven machine translation poses a threat to their livelihood. That's not where I was going at all.
I was simply attempting to point out that ChatGPT, unlike the MT systems we are all familiar with, is capable of going at least one step beyond what those other systems are capable of, and it can follow a user's instructions to do so. I will give another example, this time showing t... See more I think a lot of the people replying to this post are reacting to the idea that artificial intelligence-driven machine translation poses a threat to their livelihood. That's not where I was going at all.
I was simply attempting to point out that ChatGPT, unlike the MT systems we are all familiar with, is capable of going at least one step beyond what those other systems are capable of, and it can follow a user's instructions to do so. I will give another example, this time showing the difference between a translation generated by Google Translate and one generated by ChatGPT.
Google translate first (I hope you'll forgive me if this comes out looking ugly. I'm not all that familiar with HTML tags.):
Technology is a relatively new, multifaceted term, the exact definition of which escapes due to the constant development of the meaning of this concept, both in itself and taken in relation to other, equally broad concepts: culture, society, politics, religion, nature. By the early 20th century, the term "technology" encompassed a collection of tools, processes, and ideas in addition to tools and machines. By the middle of the 20th century, the concept was defined by such phrases as “means or activities by which a person changes his environment and manipulates it.
For the ChatGPT translation, I gave it the simple prompt, “Translate in expository style."
The definition of technology is constantly evolving, making it a relatively new and multifaceted term. Its precise definition remains elusive due to the constant development of its meaning, both in and of itself and in relation to other broad concepts such as culture, society, politics, religion, and nature.
By the beginning of the 20th century, the term "technology" referred to the combination of means, processes, and ideas in addition to tools and machines. By the mid-20th century, the concept was defined by phrases such as "the means or activity by which humans alter and manipulate their environment
This is an excerpt from translations of the Russian Wikipedia article at: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Технология.
The GT translation is pretty literal; it maintained the sentence and paragraph structure of the original Russian. Note that ChatGPT has some significant differences. It broke the first sentence in two and has “is elusive” instead of “escapes,” “both in and of itself in relation to other broad concepts” instead of “both in itself and taken in relation to other, equally broad concepts,” and “By the beginning of the 20th century” instead of “By the early 20th century,” in addition to other differences in wording, including in word order. It also broke the original single Russian paragraph into two parts.
I personally believe that the ChatGPT version is more readable, i.e., more easily digested and understood. I realize, however, that different translators would produce different translations. I'm not going to quibble about that. Again, my point here is that ChatGPT can take a translation beyond the mechanical version produced by other MT systems — and the quality of the translation is largely dependent on how the prompt is written.
One last point: ChatGPT can also be prompted to revise a translation it has produced — or any other text, for the batter. In other words, a user can engage in a dialogue with ChatGPT and instruct it on how to modify a translation.
ChatGPT has generated a lot of interest in the last couple of months, but then where have I seen a discussion about this particular issue. I am very interested in your feedback on the topic, but I would encourage you to set aside your preconceived notions about machine translation and how they might apply to ChatGPT. It is truly a different animal.
I apologize — I can't figure out how to change the font of the quoted translations.
[Edited at 2023-02-15 22:53 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-02-15 22:54 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-02-15 22:58 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-02-15 23:03 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-02-15 23:04 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-02-15 23:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 16:04
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Translation vs transliteration | Feb 15, 2023 |
Marina Aleyeva wrote:
And it's Kreminna, not Kremenna.
Okay, but one can't fault a tool for known limitations. Chat GPT's training data does not include the war in Ukraine, so naturally it's going to be translating as if it's 2021. Its training data probably contains the Russian names of Ukrainian places (which is what English also used to do, until it became fashionable to say "keeve" instead of "keeyev"), and Kremenna is the transliteration of the Russian name for Kreminna. So ChatGPT behaves as expected. It can't guess what the user's sensibilities are, nor does it know that since March last year, it has become politically incorrect to use Russian names for Ukrainian places.
Professional translators know that they should double-check place names and know how to be sensitive to current trends of political correctness.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 16:04
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| I don't see anything beneficial in it. | Feb 15, 2023 |
I am not sure what "one step further" is nor how it is beneficial. Are you aware there were rewriting tools out there, even before GPT? Yes, we are aware you can instruct GPT to do things. That doesn't mean the results are good.
Also, this is the first time I see someone open a thread and is instructing people how to reply. Are you asking us for our opinion or yours?
GT provides better results than GPT, in my language pair.
[Edited at 2023-02-15 23:29 GMT]
| | | | | Poor science | Feb 15, 2023 |
James McVay wrote: ... For the ChatGPT translation, I gave it the simple prompt, “Translate in expository style." ... This is an excerpt from translations of the Russian Wikipedia article at: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Технология.
This second test would have been far more informative about the performance of ChatGPT if you had told it to "respect the style and register of the source text".
Also, it is quite likely that both Google Translate and ChatGPT have translated that source text before, and your methodology doesn't allow for that possibility.
As for the two translations, I'd venture to suggest that both are in 'expository style' (as should be the ST, if it respects the norms of Wikipedia), but one (GT) would be better understood by those with weaker reading skills, and the other (ChatGPT) would likely appeal more to academics.
I would suggest that you take an extract from an unpublished text (i.e. that has never been available to anyone other than its author, whether in print or on the web), and tell ChatGTP to translate it, respecting the style and register of the original.
JL
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| Tool with ChatGPT | Feb 16, 2023 |
James McVay wrote:
After seeing a lot of discussion about the use of ChatGPT to write emails, essays, and even computer code, I decided to investigate it to see whether it might be of use to professional translators.
These providers believe ChatGPT can be useful for translators:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CLvT-5v2E4
| | | | | Meet the future? | Feb 16, 2023 |
Hans Lenting wrote: James McVay wrote:
After seeing a lot of discussion about the use of ChatGPT to write emails, essays, and even computer code, I decided to investigate it to see whether it might be of use to professional translators. These providers believe ChatGPT can be useful for translators: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CLvT-5v2E4
I played around a bit with Wordscope + chatGPT, and although the results of my test text are (still) far from perfect, I find the technology behind it both impressive as scary.
Is this the future for us translators? Or better said, will we still be needed?
[Edited at 2023-02-16 10:54 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-02-16 11:00 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-02-17 09:50 GMT]
| | | | | Chinese whispers on steroids | Feb 16, 2023 |
The kinds of texts people tend to use here to analyze how good an MT engine is never get me interested. What about something with real meat in it? I could come up with quite a bunch of "meaty" texts, all taken from my own projects, but the only reason I don't offer real-world challenges on MT-related threads is that people who don't speak Russian will probably get bored. Sure, the basic and most abstract meaning of the word "технология" is pretty much identical to "technology," but why... See more The kinds of texts people tend to use here to analyze how good an MT engine is never get me interested. What about something with real meat in it? I could come up with quite a bunch of "meaty" texts, all taken from my own projects, but the only reason I don't offer real-world challenges on MT-related threads is that people who don't speak Russian will probably get bored. Sure, the basic and most abstract meaning of the word "технология" is pretty much identical to "technology," but why do Russians tend to use this word in plural where English would prefer the singular form? Why did "технология" evolve to predominantly mean how something is done (rather than a totality of methods and facilities that enable you to have something done), so sometimes you'll have to translate it back as process, method, technique, (process) procedure, standard operating procedure, or just skip the word and specify what it accomplishes? How do you (and should you even try to) explain these nuances to ChatGPT so it will know which one to use and when? Whenever you have a project with a bunch of tricky words and expressions that any MT engine will mistranslate, the whole MT job will become a game of Chinese whispers, and when you ask the bot to re-write the output for better readability, it will not correct any actual mistakes (my prediction is it will make some of them worse). But one problem with ChatGPT is that its final output will look like the real deal. You'll get used to trusting it more and more, while investing less and less of your own intellectual and creative energy into your deliverables. Is that the big idea behind this variety of AI? Relax, this thing is smarter than you. And it's getting ever smarter. Just go with the flow ▲ Collapse
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