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out of package
short game
Apr 30, 2011 10:44
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

out the risk curve

English to French Bus/Financial Finance (general)
This phenomenon has, in turn, pushed investors even further out the risk curve as the number of asset classes that still provide decent yield continually diminishes.

Lead investors to take more risks?
Proposed translations (French)
5 a isolé les investisseurs encore davantage sur la courbe de risque
3 ... encore plus près de la courbe au-delà de laquelle le risque se traduit par des pertes
2 se déplacer plus en haut de la courbe de risque
References
risk curve

Discussion

Savvas SEIMANIDIS May 1, 2011:
@ Tony

It's exactly the mistake I did. I didnt't follow the advice I often give to my students : be sure to have perfectly understood the context of a question before writing down the answer ! Or as another popular Greek proverb points it out : "A boat built too fast won't have a steady course ".
Efcharisto, Tony
Tony M May 1, 2011:
@ Savvas Ah, I see where you might have been getting confused: that reference you mention is misleading, but in fact refers to a quite different type of investment-risk curve — it's in fact talking about the risk to a business if it doesn't invest enough, and in this instance, the risk is (usually!) reduced the more you invest, quite unlike our kind of 'risk curve' here.
Lise Boismenu, B.Sc. (asker) May 1, 2011:
Pour information seulement. Voici ce que j'ai trouvé :
The CLPP has been pushed further out the credit risk spectrum as competition intensifies and credit parameters relaxed.

Le PPLA est écarté de plus en plus de la gamme des sources de financement à mesure que la concurrence s'intensifie et que les critères sont assouplis.
http://www.webitext.com/bin/webitext.cgi?sl=en&tl=fr&mnuc=* ...
Savvas SEIMANIDIS May 1, 2011:
Abstract from my first example :
" When the lines cross b e l o w the curve, this is an unacceptable situation . "
Savvas SEIMANIDIS May 1, 2011:
Kalimera Tony ! Kala, efcharisto. Pino krasi me tous philous. Sin iya sou ! ( I am drinking some wine with my friends. Cheers ! )
You are absolutely right ! In fact, in case the source sentence refers to the type of investment-risk curve included in my initial reference, the risk ratio depends on the place of the r-point on the curve.
Only in case of the other type of graph, called "options risk graph ", the unacceptable risk area is below the curve. Thank you for having made it clear, as usual. As we say in Greek, " you have an eagle's eye ! " ( = mati aetou ) Kali orexi ! (good appetite!) Kalo apoyevma = good afternoon
silvester55 May 1, 2011:
je crois ( and I mean je crois , pas sûre !!!!) les investisseurs sont obligés ( vu la situation actuelle ) , de prendre plus de risques , (car en restant en dehors de la courbe de risque , les rendements ( rentrées , gains ...) sont minimes).
I would say : no pain , no gain !!!!
silvester55 May 1, 2011:
AOF / Funds) - "Les investisseurs qui s'attendent vraiment à une décennie perdue restent les mieux placés pour se concentrer sur les actifs primes. Cependant, si l'on se fonde sur les prévisions économiques actuelles qui suggèrent que la reprise va continuer et que les rendements des obligations vont diminuer, les investisseurs immobiliers devraient évoluer plus en haut sur la courbe de risque afin de bénéficier de la prime de risque actuelle et de participer au prochain cycle locatif", note Henderson Global Investors.
Tony M May 1, 2011:
@Savvas Kalimera! Ti kaneis?

I'm afraid I don't interpret this the same way as you, Savvas. Having seen some other examples now, I feel convinced that it is not necessarily pushing investors outside the risk curve (i.e. as it it were some kind of boundary), but rather out on (or along) it (like my walkiing-the-plank analogy) — i.e. not crossing over it, but going along it.
Of course, I freely admit this I nothing but instinct on my part, since I do not have specialist knowledge in this field, nor have I examiend enough examples to see just how this 'risk curve' is used.
Savvas SEIMANIDIS May 1, 2011:
Kalimera - Good morning to everybody. It seems to me that Tony has already pointed out the key of the answer. As he put it out, in English, we would have said "out of the curve ". In fact, if you have a look at the profit-loss curve or the investment-risk curve, you will notice that if the graphic value of a placement is not on the curve, that means that the investment-risk ratio is negative or unacceptable. In other words, the loss probability is higher than the profit's one. That's why the term "out the risk curve " should it be undestood as "out of the risk curve " does really make sens and corresponds to the graph's "language".
Have a nice day ! Kali sas iméra !
silvester55 May 1, 2011:
@ Savvas yes ,it is indeed the graph curve , but we were wondering if there was a missing " on " , in order to suggest translations .
Savvas SEIMANIDIS Apr 30, 2011:
Excuse me but I don't think that the sentence means that somebody, brokers, for instance - is encouraging investors to take more risks, because the word "phenomenon" implies that it's a recession's impact. It seems to me that the term " the risk curve " is indicating a graph curve tracing the limit beyond which a stock exchange investment becomes loss generating.
Tony M Apr 30, 2011:
Right! As Silvester has found, perfectly valid expression exist as 'to push out the risk curve' and 'to push s/o out on the risk curve"

Personally, I think here the meaning is the latter sense — imagine someone on a pirate ship being made to "walk the plank" (= risk curve); the further out they go, the more it bends, and the more likely they are to fall in the water (the Goons, anyone?)

So I'd risk my money on a missing 'on'
silvester55 Apr 30, 2011:
@ Lise add a " on " or not , that is the question !!! Tony , what do you suggest ? the sentence looks like a " on the risk curve " ..........
Lise Boismenu, B.Sc. (asker) Apr 30, 2011:
OK so pushing people on the risk curve means forcing them to take on more risks?
silvester55 Apr 30, 2011:
found 2 very explicite sentences : 1-Structurally higher levels of unemployment, declining house prices, and recurrent concerns about the strength of government finances continue to undermine the developed world’s economic growth. Under the new world order, uncertainty lauds it over those willing to push out the risk curve.

2-At the same time, Ms. Marcin said she was worried about a market pullback, given the market's strong runup. "We're fully priced right now. I see the market as a little stretched," she said. "What we've done in the U.S. is to inflate asset prices and push people out on the risk curve."
Tony M Apr 30, 2011:
I could understand the expression better ... ... if it were "...has caused investors to push out the risk curve", i.e. the verb 'to push out' with 'risk curve' as d.o.

Mind you, in US EN, we do say 'out' where in British EN we'd more traditionally have said 'out of': "He hurried out the door" — so perhaps this is an American expression?
Lise Boismenu, B.Sc. (asker) Apr 30, 2011:
The expression appears as is on several Web sites, but I can't seem to get a meaning on it.
Tony M Apr 30, 2011:
Typo? I can understand perfectly what is being said here, but it still seems to me that it feels like there's a preposition missing between 'out' and 'risk'? Are you able to check?

Proposed translations

6 hrs
Selected

a isolé les investisseurs encore davantage sur la courbe de risque

cf. Orwell, Novlang

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Note added at 6 hrs (2011-04-30 17:35:13 GMT)
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ou 'repoussé', pour être parfaitement fidèle au texte source

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Note added at 8 hrs (2011-04-30 18:56:22 GMT)
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voire 'expulsé', mais là, je dois en parler à mon avocat...

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Note added at 8 hrs (2011-04-30 19:01:05 GMT)
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Allez, soyons économiquement corrects : "Ce phénomène a, à son tour, exclu les investisseurs encore davantage de la courbe de risque, le nombre des catégories d'actions fournissant encore des rendements décents n'en finissant pas de baisser."
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "a repoussé... Merci à tous. Votre participation est grandement appréciée. Lise"
9 hrs

... encore plus près de la courbe au-delà de laquelle le risque se traduit par des pertes

Il s'agit de la courbe du graphique qui représente le risque de transformer un investissement initialement estimé rentable en générateur de pertes à cause d'une chute du cours des actions

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Note added at 9 hrs (2011-04-30 20:06:20 GMT)
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I think that, in this case, the terme "out of the curve" means "beyond the curve " of the Investment-risk graph, i.e. the mathematical area representing a negative yeld.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2011-04-30 21:18:18 GMT)
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Il me semble que, dans le texte source, le gr.nominal "les "investisseurs" est employé comme une métonymie incarnant l'instrument par son utilisateur, l'instrument étant, dans ce cas, l'investissement ou placement. Etant donné que le terme " the risk curve " n'est pas une métaphore mais une dénotation, celle de la courbe du graphique Investissement-Risque ( alias, courbe de Bell ) il serait peut-être plus cohérent, sémantiquement, de remplacer le gr.nom. "les investisseurs" par le gr.nom. "les placements des investisseurs ". C'est pourquoi, je propose la traduction suivante en scindant la phrase en deux pour en alléger la syntaxe :

" A son tour, ce phénomène a propulsé les placements des investisseurs encore plus près de la courbe au-delà de laquelle le risque se traduit par des pertes. D'autant plus que les types de placements rapportant encore des bénefices acceptables se raréfient sans cesse. "



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Note added at 21 hrs (2011-05-01 08:38:38 GMT)
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If you want to have a look at the way options risk graphs are working, here is an interesting and concise reference :

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/05/01260...

" Creating a Two-Dimensional Risk Graph
Let's begin by showing how to create a simple risk graph of a long position in the underlying - say 100 shares of stock priced at $50 a share. With this position you would make $100 of profit for every one-dollar increase in the price of the stock over and above your cost basis. For every one-dollar drop below your cost, you would lose $100...


The risk graph allows you to grasp a lot of information by looking at a simple picture. For example, we know at a glance that the break-even point is at $50 - the point where the profit/loss line crosses zero. The picture also demonstrates immediately that as the stock price moves down, your losses get larger and larger until the stock price hits zero, where would you lose all your money. "

Source : " Options Risk Graphs: Visualizing Profit Potential "
by Jim Graham, Registered Investment Advisor

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Note added at 22 hrs (2011-05-01 08:48:53 GMT)
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Suggestion " améliorée " tenant compte des explications au sujet du fonctionnement de la courbe " investissement-risque ":

" A son tour, ce phénomène a décalé, encore plus, les placements des investisseurs de la courbe " investissement-risque " représentant leur optimisation, sous l'effet de la chute du nombre de types d'actifs rapportant encore un retour-sur-investissement acceptable."
Example sentence:

When your budget is low or cut, rather than complain, simply draw this graph, adding on it a line to represent the investment, then add a horizontal line to show a maximum risk. When the lines cross below the curve, this is an unacceptable situation.

Reference:

http://syque.com/quality_tools/tools/Tools80.htm

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23 hrs

se déplacer plus en haut de la courbe de risque

moi aussi je risque !!!!!!!!!
mais après toutes mes recherches , je me décide à suggérer .

FAUT-IL VRAIMENT CONTINUER D’EVITER LE RISQUE A TOUT PRIX OU EST-IL TEMPS DE SE
DEPLACER PLUS EN HAUT SUR LA COURBE DE RISQUE?
Les marchés locatifs sont en retard sur les indicateurs économiques. Les crises économiques passées montrent

Reference:

http://www.pilotimmobilier.com/site/upload/etudes/InvestEurope_Henderson_octobre2010.pdf

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Reference comments

23 hrs
Reference:

risk curve

Aside from a few red herrings, look at a few of the Ghits on just the first results page — it seems clear that the idea is indeed that of moving along / up the curve, rather than crossing over it:


Investors edging up the risk curve - 14 March 2011

... Investors edging up the risk curve. 14 March 2011 ... appetite analysis are of great relevance to the real estate investment environment. ...

www.ipe.com/.../investors-edging-up-the-risk-curve_39763.ph...


Investors moving up real estate risk curve - Deutsche

25 Feb 2011 ... Investors moving up real estate risk curve - Deutsche ... The leading source of European real estate investment intelligence for ...

www.pie-mag.com/.../investors-moving-up-real-estate-risk-cu...


Investors edging up the risk curve | Latin America > Mexico from ...

14 Mar 2011 ... Investors edging up the risk curve. By Sotiris Tsolacos ... analysis are of great relevance to the real estate investment environment. ...

www.allbusiness.com/banking-finance/.../15554339-1.html


RREEF poised to move up the risk curve - PropertyEU

5 Apr 2011 ... RREEF, the real estate investment vehicle of Deutsche Bank, is gearing up to move up the risk curve, Gianluca Muzzi, managing director of ...

www.propertyeu.info/.../rreef-poised-to-move-up-the-risk-cu... -
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