Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
héroe crepuscular
English translation:
twilight hero
Added to glossary by
Jenni Lukac (X)
Sep 24, 2012 12:47
11 yrs ago
Spanish term
héroe crepuscular
Spanish to English
Other
Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
Hi everyone,
I am currently translating a series of film reviews by various critics, and have been left stumped by the following:
EL MUERTO Y SER FELIZ (THE DEAD MAN AND BEING HAPPY)
“Rebollo (…) introduce incoherencias entre lo que se ve y lo que se cuenta y arritmias anticlimáticas. Este juego crea un discurso nuevo sobre ese viaje legendario del héroe crepuscular, un discurso distinto de lo que se ve y lo que se oye, plneo de ambigüedad”.
Is anyone able to help me translate "héroe crepuscular"? To what journey is the critic referring to here?
Many thanks in advance
Jack
I am currently translating a series of film reviews by various critics, and have been left stumped by the following:
EL MUERTO Y SER FELIZ (THE DEAD MAN AND BEING HAPPY)
“Rebollo (…) introduce incoherencias entre lo que se ve y lo que se cuenta y arritmias anticlimáticas. Este juego crea un discurso nuevo sobre ese viaje legendario del héroe crepuscular, un discurso distinto de lo que se ve y lo que se oye, plneo de ambigüedad”.
Is anyone able to help me translate "héroe crepuscular"? To what journey is the critic referring to here?
Many thanks in advance
Jack
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +4 | the twilight hero |
Jenni Lukac (X)
|
| 4 +3 | anti-hero |
Charles Davis
|
| 4 | shadowy hero |
Altogringo
|
| 3 | noir hero |
Lucy Phillips
|
| 2 | has-been hero |
Christine Walsh
|
References
| "Héroe crupuscular" as anti-hero |
Jenny Westwell
|
Change log
Oct 8, 2012 08:44: Jenni Lukac (X) Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+4
9 mins
Selected
the twilight hero
one possibility
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Note added at 10 mins (2012-09-24 12:58:26 GMT)
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One example, although there are many more commercial examples as Phil suggests: Burne-Jones'Flodden Field, with its metallic, unreal colour scheme, conjures up a violent, twilight world of chivalry in which history merges into poetry. musee-orsay.fr
Con Flodden Field, Burne-Jones imagina, en una gama cromática metálica e irreal, un mundo caballeresco crepuscular y violento donde la historia y la poesía se confunden. musee-orsay.fr
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Note added at 17 mins (2012-09-24 13:04:51 GMT)
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No problem. When we're on deadlines, we get blocked. Let's see if more ideas crop up.
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Note added at 10 mins (2012-09-24 12:58:26 GMT)
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One example, although there are many more commercial examples as Phil suggests: Burne-Jones'Flodden Field, with its metallic, unreal colour scheme, conjures up a violent, twilight world of chivalry in which history merges into poetry. musee-orsay.fr
Con Flodden Field, Burne-Jones imagina, en una gama cromática metálica e irreal, un mundo caballeresco crepuscular y violento donde la historia y la poesía se confunden. musee-orsay.fr
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Note added at 17 mins (2012-09-24 13:04:51 GMT)
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No problem. When we're on deadlines, we get blocked. Let's see if more ideas crop up.
Note from asker:
| Many thanks for your answer Jenni. Perhaps I should have been more thorough in my research, as Phil eloquently pointed out, but I am chasing a tight deadline and perhaps resorted rashly to coming onto the forum for help as a result. Thanks again Jenni |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Gordon Byron
: lovely :-)
46 mins
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Thanks very much, Gordon. Have a good afternoon.
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| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: or even inversion hero of (the) twilight (hours), though I have to say I like "lugubrious hero" as well! Agree with your comment about deadlines; sometimes the brain just seizes upl
1 hr
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Thanks, gallagy. It happens to all of us.
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| agree |
Jenny Westwell
7 hrs
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Thanks very much, Jenni.
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| agree |
Edward Tully
4 days
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Cheers and thanks, Edward. Have a good weekend.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+3
4 hrs
anti-hero
I think the literal translation "twilight hero" sounds great, and it's certainly evocative, but I have serious doubts about whether it's suitable as a translation of "héroe crepuscular". It suggests to me somebody inhabiting a twilight world (perhaps even the Robert Pattinson vampire character), with perhaps sinister or even supernatural overtones. But "héroe crepuscular" is a well-established term in Spanish film criticism with a specific meaning. The problem is that I can't find or think of an exact English equivalent; perhaps there isn't one.
The "héroe crepuscular" is quintessentially, thought not exclusively, the protagonist of the "western crepuscular", which means Sam Peckinpah to Clint Eastwood, culminating in "Unforgiven". Eastwood in Leone's films is very much the "héroe crepuscular".
There's a whole book about the western crepuscular in Spanish:
http://books.google.es/books/about/El_héroe_del_western_crep...
Here's a definition:
"El western crepuscular surge cuando los heroes de acero de las pelis de vaqueros comienzan a mostrar sus fisuras... Se comenta que la cosa comienza con las peliculas que Anthony Mann dirige con James Steward, como "Winchester ´73" o "Tierras Lejanas". Aunque hay quien marca el principio en "La diligencia" de John Ford por aquello de que sus heroes son un presidiario, una ****, un borracho etc... Basicamente se entiende que el heroe mítico, casi superheroe tipo Tom Mix comienza a mostrarse egoista, asesino, ambicioso.... "
http://es.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2008082604254...
It is a kind of doomed hero, rather dark, rather brooding, definitely cool, not a straight virtuous heroic. The protagonist of El muerto y ser feliz is an elderly hitman dying of cancer. I think that for want of a more specific term in English we should call him an "anti-hero". It's really a specific kind of anti-hero, but I think this will give the closest idea, and it's important to use a translation that is an established generic term in English, as "héroe crepuscular" is in Spanish.
The "héroe crepuscular" is quintessentially, thought not exclusively, the protagonist of the "western crepuscular", which means Sam Peckinpah to Clint Eastwood, culminating in "Unforgiven". Eastwood in Leone's films is very much the "héroe crepuscular".
There's a whole book about the western crepuscular in Spanish:
http://books.google.es/books/about/El_héroe_del_western_crep...
Here's a definition:
"El western crepuscular surge cuando los heroes de acero de las pelis de vaqueros comienzan a mostrar sus fisuras... Se comenta que la cosa comienza con las peliculas que Anthony Mann dirige con James Steward, como "Winchester ´73" o "Tierras Lejanas". Aunque hay quien marca el principio en "La diligencia" de John Ford por aquello de que sus heroes son un presidiario, una ****, un borracho etc... Basicamente se entiende que el heroe mítico, casi superheroe tipo Tom Mix comienza a mostrarse egoista, asesino, ambicioso.... "
http://es.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2008082604254...
It is a kind of doomed hero, rather dark, rather brooding, definitely cool, not a straight virtuous heroic. The protagonist of El muerto y ser feliz is an elderly hitman dying of cancer. I think that for want of a more specific term in English we should call him an "anti-hero". It's really a specific kind of anti-hero, but I think this will give the closest idea, and it's important to use a translation that is an established generic term in English, as "héroe crepuscular" is in Spanish.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Carol Gullidge
: know what you mean, and can't think of anything better. As you say, perhaps a dark hero or even maybe a flawed hero
35 mins
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That seems to tbe the idea, yes. This is frustrating, because I suspect there's something I'm missing, but I can't even find a single accepted term for what they call the "western crepuscular". Thanks, Carol :)
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| agree |
Lucy Phillips
: actually I think anti-hero is better than my suggestion. I wonder if there's any possibility that 'crepuscular' can also carry an implication of dying (death of the west/end of an era/end of a life, as is the case of this character).
2 hrs
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Thanks, Lucy! As far as I can gather, they don't tend to apply "crepuscular" to noir, but it's very much the same idea really. In this particular film that implication would be very appropriate; perhaps it is there.
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| agree |
Jenny Westwell
: Thanks for the education, Charles! I stand convinced. Here's a link to a well-argued definition of the "héroe crepuscular", which clearly suggests "anti-héroe" as its synonym. http://www.lallanternamagica.com/2009/12/herois-crepusculars... :)
15 hrs
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Thanks very much, Jenny! As I've said below, I find your reference very interesting and enlightening :)
|
5 hrs
Lucy Phillips
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Elegant precision - published writer
Native in: English 
Works in: Spanish to English, English, Portuguese to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
noir hero
hmmm, judging by Charles' interpretation of crepuscular - I wonder if the term 'noir hero' might work. Noir westerns?
apparently 'crepucular westerns' is also used in EN, perhaps not as widely, I don't know. It's not a term I've come across before but there are some solid references for it. Interesting: https://filmgoersguide.wordpress.com/category/crime-films/
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Note added at 5 hrs (2012-09-24 18:44:59 GMT)
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actually, not sure the references for crepuscular in EN are that reliable. But still think 'noir' is a possibility.
apparently 'crepucular westerns' is also used in EN, perhaps not as widely, I don't know. It's not a term I've come across before but there are some solid references for it. Interesting: https://filmgoersguide.wordpress.com/category/crime-films/
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Note added at 5 hrs (2012-09-24 18:44:59 GMT)
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actually, not sure the references for crepuscular in EN are that reliable. But still think 'noir' is a possibility.
12 hrs
has-been hero
I think it's the right meaning, but sounds a bit flippant. Hence my low confidence level, but I thought it might engender some ideas.
1 day 3 hrs
shadowy hero
Off the top my head, immediately popped into mind.
We have shadowy figures, why not a shadowy hero, particularly of the mysterious, ill-defined, hard to pin down variety, especially if he lurks off to the side.
Came to me before I saw any of the very interesting research done by others, but what the hell, I'll throw it in there anyway.
We have shadowy figures, why not a shadowy hero, particularly of the mysterious, ill-defined, hard to pin down variety, especially if he lurks off to the side.
Came to me before I saw any of the very interesting research done by others, but what the hell, I'll throw it in there anyway.
Reference comments
19 hrs
Jenny Westwell
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Insightful, timely, accurate
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, English
Reference:
"Héroe crupuscular" as anti-hero
http://www.lallanternamagica.com/2009/12/herois-crepusculars...
"Si nos fijamos, por ejemplo, en el western (uno de los géneros que más ha explotado el valor del héroe) veremos que hay mucha diferencia entra la caracterización del héroe en el western clásico y la caracterización del héroe en el que se llamó western crepuscular. En el western clásico se aborda la vertiente épica, muchas veces acrítica, del héroe, mientras que en el sub-género crepuscular, los héroes són personajes grises, atormentados, muchas veces lisiados y ya sin esperanza.[...]
Es difícil hacer un listado con las características de los héroes crepusculares. Pero voy a intentarlo.
Sin duda, se trata de un tipo de héroe en el que importa más su evolución interior que no su evolución exterior o física. Suele ser un personaje con contradicciones internas, con un fuerte debate interior, que se cuestiona el por qué de sus valores hasta ponerlos en duda. Puede considerarse en muchas ocasiones que es una víctima de la sociedad, que arrastra heridas de la vida. Heridas psicológicas, no físicas. Suele ser un personaje que vive aventuras de la cotidianidad más que aventuras épicas. Y es habitual, también, que se trate de un personaje fronterizo, que vive al límite del abismo. En este sentido, el héroe crepuscular es un ser que de alguna manera ya es un ser vencido y que se enfrenta a varias pruebas que muchas veces son las definitvas.
Se trata pues, como ya decía antes, de un ser vulnerable que es más anti-héroe, que héroe."
"Si nos fijamos, por ejemplo, en el western (uno de los géneros que más ha explotado el valor del héroe) veremos que hay mucha diferencia entra la caracterización del héroe en el western clásico y la caracterización del héroe en el que se llamó western crepuscular. En el western clásico se aborda la vertiente épica, muchas veces acrítica, del héroe, mientras que en el sub-género crepuscular, los héroes són personajes grises, atormentados, muchas veces lisiados y ya sin esperanza.[...]
Es difícil hacer un listado con las características de los héroes crepusculares. Pero voy a intentarlo.
Sin duda, se trata de un tipo de héroe en el que importa más su evolución interior que no su evolución exterior o física. Suele ser un personaje con contradicciones internas, con un fuerte debate interior, que se cuestiona el por qué de sus valores hasta ponerlos en duda. Puede considerarse en muchas ocasiones que es una víctima de la sociedad, que arrastra heridas de la vida. Heridas psicológicas, no físicas. Suele ser un personaje que vive aventuras de la cotidianidad más que aventuras épicas. Y es habitual, también, que se trate de un personaje fronterizo, que vive al límite del abismo. En este sentido, el héroe crepuscular es un ser que de alguna manera ya es un ser vencido y que se enfrenta a varias pruebas que muchas veces son las definitvas.
Se trata pues, como ya decía antes, de un ser vulnerable que es más anti-héroe, que héroe."
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Charles Davis
: Very interesting. A subtle description, which really captures what makes some of these films so interesting.
9 mins
|
Discussion