Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
denial
French translation:
faire face au déni / au rejet
Added to glossary by
Lisa Schwartz
Jun 23, 2013 09:31
10 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term
France
Reliable- Marketing/Business experience
Native in: French
Works in: Italian to French, English to French, French, and 1 more.
denial
English to French
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
correspondances privées artiste
Il s'agit de correspondances privées entre différents artistes du 19e/20e siècle.
Avant la lettre elle-même, une présentation succincte décrit la vie de l'artiste et son oeuvre.
Nous parlons ici d'Egon Schiele, peintre controversé pour ses moeurs et le caractère érotique de ses nus. Il fut emprisonné pour cette raison à Neulengbach.
Je ne vois pas, dans la phrase ci-dessous, comment comprendre ce "in denial". Je n'ai pas d'autres précisions. Merci de vos suggestions.
"The painter Egon Schiele moved to Krumau in 1911, the place his mother was born, and established his atelier there. Already the very same year he was forced to move to Neulengbach near Vienna.
With his common law marriage and the nudes of young girls he met with the people **in denial**."
Avant la lettre elle-même, une présentation succincte décrit la vie de l'artiste et son oeuvre.
Nous parlons ici d'Egon Schiele, peintre controversé pour ses moeurs et le caractère érotique de ses nus. Il fut emprisonné pour cette raison à Neulengbach.
Je ne vois pas, dans la phrase ci-dessous, comment comprendre ce "in denial". Je n'ai pas d'autres précisions. Merci de vos suggestions.
"The painter Egon Schiele moved to Krumau in 1911, the place his mother was born, and established his atelier there. Already the very same year he was forced to move to Neulengbach near Vienna.
With his common law marriage and the nudes of young girls he met with the people **in denial**."
Proposed translations
(French)
| 3 +1 | faire face au déni / au rejet |
Lisa Schwartz
|
| 4 +2 | se voiler la face |
Saskia Spahn
|
| 3 +1 | dans le déni |
Tony M
|
| 4 | dans l'indifférence.... |
Premium✍️
|
| 4 | se heurta au rejet du public |
Anne R
|
| 4 | l'hostilité |
Marion Feildel (X)
|
Change log
Jun 26, 2013 07:03: Lisa Schwartz Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
4 hrs
Lisa Schwartz
Spain
Spain
Native in French
Works in field
Spain
Your French specialist
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: English to French, German to French, Spanish to French
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
faire face au déni / au rejet
Obviously, the idea is ill-formulated in English too, but I guess, as others said, that this is the idea.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Françoise Vogel
: il me semble aussi qu'il est désavoué par la communauté où il vit (sa production à ce moment là était franchement obscène).
7 hrs
|
| neutral |
Premium✍️
: Oui pour 'faire face au rejet' de la population et des prudes... mais ce 'déni' vient en fait de lui. C'est presqu'un défi qu'il leur lance étant marié et peintre de ces dames et filles nues. Il répudie leur répudiation, SON "Denial" donc.
10 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Merci Lisa et merci à tous. Voir explications dans les commentaires."
+1
16 mins
English term (edited):
in denial
dans le déni
You need to keep 'in denial' together as a set expression, referring her it seems to the 'people'.
But there seems to be soemthing wrong with your source text; is it possible it was written by a non-native EN speaker? I suspect the verb 'met' is wrong, and should have been something stronger like 'came face-to-face with' or 'encountered' --- this would be a typical lexical error for a non-native speaker, where in many other languages the same word would be used for all three of those meanings.
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Note added at 17 mins (2013-06-23 09:49:00 GMT)
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Also, the use of 'the' in front of 'people' rings odd, and could again be a sign of a non-native writer.
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Note added at 31 mins (2013-06-23 10:03:26 GMT)
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I feel more than ever convinced it is a translation from German, which would explain several of the syntax elements.
And logically, 'he' is the principal subject of the sentence and hence of the verb 'met' -- but of course, it's actually the verb 'to meet with', which is probably wrong; though cf. the EN expression 'to meet with opposition' = 'encounter'; here, it would have been fine if the author had said 'met with opposition from people in denial'
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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-06-23 12:54:20 GMT)
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It's important to bear in mind that the expression used in your source text is 'in denial' --- I think it is unlikely that someone would use that quite specific expression incorrectly, and my interpretation makes logical sense as well: 'people who are in denial' might imply people who refuse to believe women are ever naked, or that nakedness can be erotic, etc...
But there seems to be soemthing wrong with your source text; is it possible it was written by a non-native EN speaker? I suspect the verb 'met' is wrong, and should have been something stronger like 'came face-to-face with' or 'encountered' --- this would be a typical lexical error for a non-native speaker, where in many other languages the same word would be used for all three of those meanings.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2013-06-23 09:49:00 GMT)
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Also, the use of 'the' in front of 'people' rings odd, and could again be a sign of a non-native writer.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2013-06-23 10:03:26 GMT)
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I feel more than ever convinced it is a translation from German, which would explain several of the syntax elements.
And logically, 'he' is the principal subject of the sentence and hence of the verb 'met' -- but of course, it's actually the verb 'to meet with', which is probably wrong; though cf. the EN expression 'to meet with opposition' = 'encounter'; here, it would have been fine if the author had said 'met with opposition from people in denial'
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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-06-23 12:54:20 GMT)
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It's important to bear in mind that the expression used in your source text is 'in denial' --- I think it is unlikely that someone would use that quite specific expression incorrectly, and my interpretation makes logical sense as well: 'people who are in denial' might imply people who refuse to believe women are ever naked, or that nakedness can be erotic, etc...
Note from asker:
| Tony, thank you ! In fact the sentence sounds odd, especially the "met with the people "...Does "met" refer to girls or people ? I have no information on who wrote this text, but i guess it could be a translation from German... |
| Merci Tony, polyglot45 confirme la thèse de l allemand avec possibilité de "rejection" for denial" . |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Myriam Le Brock
3 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Myriam!
|
|
| neutral |
Premium✍️
: Trop littéral et peu idiomatique en contexte.
8 hrs
|
|
You're probably right; my only concern was really to highlight for Asker that the fact that the expression is 'in denial' --- though I have doubts even as to whether this is truly what the writer meant to say; the EN is so poor, little can be certain.
|
|
| neutral |
GILLES MEUNIER
: Ce n'est pas très littéraire....
17 hrs
|
|
Fair enough --- but then neither is the source term, for that matter.
|
+2
7 hrs
Saskia Spahn
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Native in: German (Variant: Germany) 
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to English, and 5 more.
English term (edited):
in denial
se voiler la face
(to be) in denial - se voiler la face
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Premium✍️
: en se voilant la face = en NIANT la réalité (de sa polémique). Il ne voulait pas/il se refusait à entendre cette réalité... Il manque tt simplement la virgule après "girls", ÀMHA. Les phrases suivantes prrt ctmnt jeter plus de lumière.
1 hr
|
| agree |
Bertrand Leduc
2 hrs
|
| neutral |
Françoise Vogel
: Schiele, se voiler la face? à quel propos?
4 hrs
|
| agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
10 hrs
|
| neutral |
Anne R
: je ne pense pas que c'est traduction marche ici, il ne s'agit pas de lui mais je la réaction du public à son égard
11 hrs
|
| disagree |
Marion Feildel (X)
: Il suscite l'hostilité de la population. Ce qui l'obligera à fuir la ville.
1 day 4 hrs
|
17 hrs
English term (edited):
in denial
dans l'indifférence....
Cette proposition récapitule bien toutes mes interventions dans ce fil qui semble avoir donné bien du fil à retordre. Je viens de lire un peu sur cet artiste que je ne connaissais. Alors, en dépit et en défi de TOUS, malgré la controverse de ses peintures et de ses sujets, il a fait face à la population bien indifferent (oblivious, in denial), en pleine indifference, continuant à peindre les femmes et jeunes filles NUES et à l'époque vous pouvez imaginer l'image...comme si de rien n'etait.
Bonne semaine ! :)
Bonne semaine ! :)
19 hrs
se heurta au rejet du public
..
1 day 11 hrs
l'hostilité
... il suscite l'hostilité de la population.
Cependant, les habitants de Krumlov manifestant un antipathie de plus en plus marquée pour la vie et les toiles libres de moeurs de Schiele, l'artiste se voit obligé de quitter la ville, pour s'installer avec sa compagne aux environs de Vienne.
Egon Schiele pense pouvoir vivre et peindre en toute liberté, mais il va se heurter à ceux qu'il scandalise.
Cependant, les habitants de Krumlov manifestant un antipathie de plus en plus marquée pour la vie et les toiles libres de moeurs de Schiele, l'artiste se voit obligé de quitter la ville, pour s'installer avec sa compagne aux environs de Vienne.
Egon Schiele pense pouvoir vivre et peindre en toute liberté, mais il va se heurter à ceux qu'il scandalise.
Reference:
http://www.eternels-eclairs.fr/biographie-egon-schiele.php
http://www.amazon.fr/Egon-Schiele-Xavier-Coste/dp/220304778X
Reference comments
9 hrs
Reference:
In Denial
denial [dɪˈnaɪəl]
n
5. (Psychology) a psychological process by which painful truths are not admitted into an individual's consciousness See also defence
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Note added at 9 hrs (2013-06-23 19:03:31 GMT)
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P.S. À la bonne heure ! Il y a tant de commentaires plus haut que je ne les avais pas tous lus à fond. Je viens de remarquer que Polyglot45 lui-même a instinctivement mis la virgule après 'girls'. Contente de voir que je ne suis pas la seule à voir dans la phrase un problème de punctuation !
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Note added at 9 hrs (2013-06-23 19:19:11 GMT)
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pOnctuation,, pardon...
n
5. (Psychology) a psychological process by which painful truths are not admitted into an individual's consciousness See also defence
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Note added at 9 hrs (2013-06-23 19:03:31 GMT)
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P.S. À la bonne heure ! Il y a tant de commentaires plus haut que je ne les avais pas tous lus à fond. Je viens de remarquer que Polyglot45 lui-même a instinctivement mis la virgule après 'girls'. Contente de voir que je ne suis pas la seule à voir dans la phrase un problème de punctuation !
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Note added at 9 hrs (2013-06-23 19:19:11 GMT)
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pOnctuation,, pardon...
Example sentence:
Mon père âgé était malade et en phase terminale, mais il ne comprenait pas ce qui lui arrivait - il devenait dépressif et me posait beaucoup de questions parce qu'il oubliait ou **<b><u>niait la réalité**</b></u>, raconte Christine, de Sudbury
Discussion
@ Multipro : admettant que ce soit HE qui soit in denial, j'ai du mal à comprendre (désolée, à force de tourner la phrase dans tous les sens...). Il se voilait la face/se refusait à voir la réalité = il refuse d'admettre que ses nus et ses moeurs choquent la population/entraînent une réaction hostile de la part de cette dernière ?
It is clear there was something deeply Freudian in this artist's life and work, but I really don't feel there is any way we can interpret it as being he who is in denial.
Although not strictly essential, one might usefully add a comma after 'girls' --- in that way, underlining the subordinate nature of the clause "with ... girls" to the main part of the sentence 'he met with {the} people in denial'.
The point of course being that he didn't just 'meet' these girls --- he painted them naked.
From past experience, I'd say this is probably not actually a translation from another language, but rather, written in EN by someone who is not a native speaker, and whose writing has been influenced by their mother tongue. This would explain the correct use of an EN expression like 'in denial', but then getting the vocabulary slightly skewed with the verb 'met with', and the confusion of whether or not to include that definite article.
@polyglot45 : the German guess was mine actually :(
It is easy to see how coming from German or French, the wrong choice of word might have been used for the verb 'met' -- a more or less single-word error.
However, the very specific adjectival expression 'in denial' is not a likely syntactical error for the noun 'rejection' -- and this would require the assumption of a multiple-word error and some jolly convoluted contortions of the syntax to go with!
The error is easy to understand if, for example, the original verb in German had been 'treffen', which can translate into EN as both 'meet (with)' and 'encounter' (to name but a few).
Le mot allemand (s'il s'agit de cela) pourrait être "Ablehnung" qui peut se traduire par "denial" ou par "rejection"