| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: Are translation agencies devaluing our work? Thread poster: Radim Rozumek
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| Show me the goods, I'll give you a rate | Feb 1, 2022 |
When asked for rates, typically over the phone, I give such a large span that the client is easily convinced to send me a copy of the document. Then I am in a position to provide a figure where I am neither selling myself short, nor overcharging the client. The latter argument is usually well understood.
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Baran Keki wrote:
I know that people don't want to hear about 'language pairs', but it's the heart of the matter. You, translating into Czech, won't get the same volume of work as an English to German translator does
That doesn’t even make sense. There will be more translators into German. It will even out.
and those 'boutique agencies' will have very little work to offer in your language pair.
Why approach them? What you need is boutique agencies or direct clients in relevant markets. (Or a very special niche.)
I suspect the reason those translating into English command better rates
Do they? It’s the other way around in my languages.
The rate a translator commands depends on who they work for. Nothing else. Not the market. Not the big agencies. It is 100% down to you.
An incompetent Czech translator could get away with bad translations as long as they can, while producing large and cheap volumes of translation on a daily basis to sustain their lives in central Europe. Those translating into English can't do that (for very long).
Well, they can and do. Trust me.
TLDR:
Focus on more relevant and discerning clients
You make your own luck
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Ice Scream wrote:
Unfortunately that is simply is how capitalism works.
Sorry for teaching you, but you were talking about market economy, not capitalism. Capitalism is the next step and deals with (re)investing the capital one has gained by work or other investments.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:08
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Sorry for teaching YOU | Feb 1, 2022 |
The capitalist mode of production is characterised by private ownership of the means of production, the extraction of surplus value by the owning class for the purpose of capital accumulation, and by wage-based labour.
Other definitions are available.
[Edited at 2022-02-01 16:47 GMT]
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| You didn't teach me ... | Feb 1, 2022 |
Tom in London wrote:
The capitalist mode of production is characterised by private ownership of the means of production, the extraction of surplus value by the owning class for the purpose of capital accumulation, and by wage-based labour.
Other definitions are available.
[Edited at 2022-02-01 16:47 GMT]
... you just quoted something you have no idea of ...
Edited: Please don't forget to play the "post-something-and-erase-it-immediately" game for those, who subscribed to the forums (like you do).
[Bearbeitet am 2022-02-01 16:57 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:08
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Actually, I shall continue to do whatever I like.
Now; shall we return to the topic?
[Edited at 2022-02-01 17:07 GMT]
| | | | AnnaSCHTR 
United States
Local time: 02:08
English to Czech
+ ...
| Everyone is cutting corners | Feb 2, 2022 |
Ice Scream wrote:
The rate a translator commands depends on who they work for. Nothing else. Not the market. Not the big agencies. It is 100% down to you.
Yes. However, how much work you get for the rate you set as a fair price for yourself - that is another matter.
It seems that in our profession, quality is becoming secondary. There is a new business concept:
GOOD ENOUGH
Not perfect, not error-free, not carefully crafted and polished. Just good enough. That's what an end-client wants, apparently. As long as it can be faster, and less expensive. Shareholders' value, and all that.
I don't understand this concept at all, especially not in my specializations (legal and life science) but it is now wide-spread. It includes ... well, everything. Customer service, car makers, appliance manufacturers, insurance, health care, technical writers, construction business. No one dies, no one starts a lawsuit? Good enough.
Unfortunately, I can't work this way, my brain is wired differently. But as I have been doing mostly editing and QM this past year, that's what I see every day. Perhaps it's just a temporary sign of the times.
| | | | Radim Rozumek
Czech Republic
Local time: 09:08
English to Czech
TOPIC STARTER
Exactly. It is my problem too, I cannot wittingly produce compromised quality. For me it's personal - providing poor quality = personal failure...
I kind of hope that this trend is just temporary because it makes me very uncomfortable. If it persists, thinking in the long term I will have only two options: to quit the business (I hate the idea) or to accept the new world and become good enough (I hate the idea even more) ... See more Exactly. It is my problem too, I cannot wittingly produce compromised quality. For me it's personal - providing poor quality = personal failure...
I kind of hope that this trend is just temporary because it makes me very uncomfortable. If it persists, thinking in the long term I will have only two options: to quit the business (I hate the idea) or to accept the new world and become good enough (I hate the idea even more) ▲ Collapse
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 10:08
Member
English to Turkish
Those 'Good Enoughers' are exactly the ones translators like Ice Scream avoid like the plague. They are the ones pushing the rates down (and milking the Covid situation for all its worth, and doubtless hoping for a new catastrophe/pandemic to be in a 'legitimate' position to ask for further reduction).
Realistically speaking, if you're asked to do a job for 0.03/0.04 EUR per word, does the agency have the luxury to expect quality from you? They know full well what they are getting. They ar... See more Those 'Good Enoughers' are exactly the ones translators like Ice Scream avoid like the plague. They are the ones pushing the rates down (and milking the Covid situation for all its worth, and doubtless hoping for a new catastrophe/pandemic to be in a 'legitimate' position to ask for further reduction).
Realistically speaking, if you're asked to do a job for 0.03/0.04 EUR per word, does the agency have the luxury to expect quality from you? They know full well what they are getting. They are chancers (living by the motto 'you win some, you lose some'), exploiting the low rates and bad translators for as long as they can while the going is good (I'm really sorry if you're forced to work with such agencies in the USA, where the living conditions, I expect, are higher than that of Brazil).
I don't think Ice Scream was referring to those kinds of agencies when he said "The rate a translator commands depends on who they work for". Last year he was bragging about the fact that a German agency/client found him through Proz and agreed on his rate (which I'm guessing is at least twice as much as mine) without haggling. Well, isn't that what they call 'pure luck'?
Btw while writing this post I received the following job notification: '2000 words for 88 EUR', to be delivered in less than 24 hours, payment term 60 days by Paypal only. There is a 'Good Enougher' for you. I don't think that job will remain 'available' for more than an hour. Do you think I should take the opportunity during that one hour and write them a message, saying things that will cause this post to be removed by Proz?
[Edited at 2022-02-03 08:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:08
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Baran Keki wrote:
..... Last year he was bragging about the fact that a German agency/client found him through Proz and agreed on his rate (which I'm guessing is at least twice as much as mine) without haggling.
We do get some braggarts on these forums. I don't take them too seriously.
[Edited at 2022-02-03 11:08 GMT]
| | | | | Don’t sell yourself short | Feb 3, 2022 |
Baran Keki wrote:
I don't think Ice Scream was referring to those kinds of agencies when he said "The rate a translator commands depends on who they work for". Last year he was bragging about the fact that a German agency/client found him through Proz and agreed on his rate (which I'm guessing is at least twice as much as mine) without haggling. Well, isn't that what they call 'pure luck'?
Ooh, I’d forgotten about them. Only the other day I said I’d never had work through ProZ. Oops. To be fair, I wasn’t bragging so much as expressing utter astonishment and just trying to show what is possible.
Every time you raise the amount you require to get out of bed, you risk temporarily reducing the amount of work you get offered. It’s a risk. But if you stick with it, and you provide a service to match the price, you may be surprised which customers stay with you (in my case one of the global nasties), and which new ones turn up (a Danish boutique springs too mind, Baran!). With agencies, you can also play hardball on subject matter as well as price so you only do stuff you enjoy. It’s a slow and gradual process, it took me 15 years to get there, and I suppose it is not suited to people who have big mortgages and live beyond their means, but ultimately that’s a Catch 22 of their own making.
Oh, and yes, the Germans were luck. But not pure luck. There is something to be said for a high rate actively attracting more discerning clients, as the assumption is that you must be pretty good. I have set my rate on here at 20 pence a word. I don’t normally charge that much but it scares away the chancers and time wasters. I guess there is a happy medium.
The direct clients that contact me from time to time IRL never bat an eyelid at whatever I quote them, and sometimes I have quoted an eye-wateringly high price in the hope they’ll go away, but they don’t. There has to be a moral in there somewhere.
I’m sorry to come across as bragging. I’m certainly confident in my abilities, and quickly irritated by some of the losers out there and on here, but really I just want to counter some of the negativity about what is possible as a translator.
And also, now I’m on permanent probation, I can’t say anything funny or controversial any more here, so you’re going to have to live with me expressing some contrarian opinions instead.
Anybody want to hear about the year I made $250,000?
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:08
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Ice Scream wrote:
..... I just want to counter some of the negativity about what is possible as a translator.
Finally, we agree about something.
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 10:08
Member
English to Turkish
Ice Scream wrote:
To be fair, I wasn’t bragging so much as expressing utter astonishment and just trying to show what is possible.
Anybody want to hear about the year I made $250,000?
That came out wrong. You're right, you were expressing your astonishment. I think there was some sort of discussion going on about Proz and the job board leading up to that post.
I remember you mentioning about breaking the hourly rate record (was it 20k per hour?), you were most definitely bragging then!
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 09:08
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| You bet your sweet patootie! | Feb 3, 2022 |
Ice Scream wrote:
Anybody want to hear about the year I made $250,000?
And I'm sorry to hear that you're still in the doghouse, but just seeing your avatar makes me smile and fills me with expectations of great delights, and revelations of immortal wisdom. Your freak flag flies on!
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Baran Keki wrote:
TYou're right, you were expressing your astonishment. I think there was some sort of discussion going on about Proz and the job board leading up to that post.
I remember you mentioning about breaking the hourly rate record (was it 20k per hour?), you were most definitely bragging then!
I had to go back and check…
https://www.proz.com/forum/off_topic/349811-omg_i_think_i_just_got_my_first_ever_job_through_proz-page3.html
I didn’t mention a price. Phew. They did ask me to do another job a few weeks later but I was too busy and I haven’t heard from them since, so not quite the dream client. I never asked whether they found me here.
Was that 20k words per hour or £20k per hour? Either way, pfft. It’s nothing. I translate into English after all.
Back on topic: I think Good Enough has been around throughout my 30 years in translation and probably always has been and always will be.
I imagine that finding discerning clients willing to pay extra for quality has always been and will always be a challenge in every branch of business.
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