| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Introducing AI to KudoZ: human expertise and AI combined in support of the most helpful answer Thread poster: Lucia Leszinsky
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TargamaT team 
France
Local time: 18:00
Member (2010)
English to Arabic
+ ...
| ChatGPT for "stupids" | Jan 14 |
Could someone explain to me what is the benefit of ChatGPT, look at this example:
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/7169734
Proz introduced this as a feature but it turns ridiculous...
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What an alarmingly irresponsible move. A language model is never reliable. Kudoz are often highly technical requests and trust is crucial here, while I can only trust a language model to make shit up and not be accountable. The people making decisions to use them should be held accountable.
Source: I have worked in language models for 4 years before the "AI" craze. They are not reliable. Period.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:00
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| They just killed Kudoz | Jan 16 |
Miguel González Álvarez wrote:
What an alarmingly irresponsible move. A language model is never reliable. Kudoz are often highly technical requests and trust is crucial here, while I can only trust a language model to make shit up and not be accountable. The people making decisions to use them should be held accountable.
Source: I have worked in language models for 4 years before the "AI" craze. They are not reliable. Period.
I will probably never again ask or answer any Kudoz questions, although I think I can see how unscrupulous users will now be able to accumulate kudoz points.
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Tom in London wrote:
I will probably never again ask or answer any Kudoz questions, although I think I can see how unscrupulous users will now be able to accumulate kudoz points.
You also said you'd never use a CAT tool
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:00
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Christopher Schröder wrote: Tom in London wrote:
I will probably never again ask or answer any Kudoz questions, although I think I can see how unscrupulous users will now be able to accumulate kudoz points. You also said you'd never use a CAT tool
Are you keeping a file on me? I'm certainly keeping one on you.
| | | | | Even when things look grim, they're not hopeless | Jan 16 |
Jennifer Levey wrote: Lucia Leszinsky wrote (with my emphasis):
Directory ranking is improved by earning KudoZ points. KudoZ points are earned by proposing useful KudoZ answers (useful for askers). If AI-generated answers are an "aberration", "gibberish", or "rubbish" (just to quote a few...), then I guess we, humans, have nothing to worry about. In any case, points "earned" by the AI have no effect over directory ranking since ChatGPT's profile is not even listed there.
Lucia In many language pairs and/or fields, the ranking of any 'human' translator is critically dependent on just a tiny number of Kudoz points won for oneself or lost to a human colleague. ALL points awarded to the AI bot, regardless of the quality/usefulness/intelligibility of the bot's answer, are points that are no longer available to any human translator - and hence their ranking cannot improve even if they have provided a first-class answer. Consequently, contrary to Lucia's assertion highlighted above, points "earned" by the AI most certainly CAN HAVE AN EFFECT over directory ranking, simply because all points grabbed by the bot are effectively 'siphoned out' of the limited reservoir of points that could otherwise be earned by us humans to improve our ratings in 'competition' with our human peers.
Your statement reminds me of what I said many years ago about translation jobs (low-cost posts) that are no longer available to professional translators.
But to the point of this forum post, no machine will ever be able to THINK - the machine will never THINK of the best solution, or any solution; it will always be comparing and selecting words and phrases that were used in similar translations before, and any algorithm will never be a sure thing for rendering translations that a client can trust. An experienced translator who THINKS is required to guarantee a high quality translation, especially in fields like medicine, law, technology, engineering, and more. And I wouldn't trust AI for a creative text such as marketing, or a book translation (literature). So, even though things often look grim, they're certainly not hopeless (be ready for something big). Stick to your professional guns.
AI will never LEARN, but people will. Eventually.
[Edited at 2024-01-17 06:11 GMT]
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Miguel González Álvarez wrote:
What an alarmingly irresponsible move. A language model is never reliable. Kudoz are often highly technical requests and trust is crucial here, while I can only trust a language model to make shit up and not be accountable. The people making decisions to use them should be held accountable.
We have tried, Miguel, but in vain. See this forum discussion from last year.
https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_suggestions/363811-please_remove_chatgpt_option_from_kudoz.html
Read it and weep. Clearly, there's somebody on ProZ staff whose pet project this is and who loves it like their own child, no matter how many obvious defects it may have.
As for accountability, as I know from personal experience, that only works in one direction. That's why I cancelled my ProZ membership.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:00
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Christopher Schröder wrote: You also said you'd never use a CAT tool
Yes, that was a big shift from his former attitude of trenchant disapproval, but I think the fact that Tom did eventually give it another go is a point in his favour. It's not easy to change one's working habits later in one's career (I speak from personal experience) and it is admirable that he was willing and able to do so.
Dan
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Philip Lees wrote:
As for accountability, as I know from personal experience, that only works in one direction. That's why I cancelled my ProZ membership.
Please consider to get a free membership. I'd really miss your valuable contributions.
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Dan Lucas wrote: Christopher Schröder wrote: You also said you'd never use a CAT tool Yes, that was a big shift from his former attitude of trenchant disapproval, but I think the fact that Tom did eventually give it another go is a point in his favour. It's not easy to change one's working habits later in one's career (I speak from personal experience) and it is admirable that he was willing and able to do so. Dan
It took some time to convince Tom that there really exists an intuitive CAT tool that is beautifully integrated into macOS.
| | | | | KudoZ: AI versus human | Jan 17 |
I don't depend on KudoZ. I remember using it a few years back when in doubt about phrases or words. As one of my research tools. Haven't used it in a long time.
However, I contributed quite a lot with answers because it was an interesting mind exercise and I liked the challenge.
Then I lost interest, maybe because I wasn't happy with other things on this site. Or because there seemed to be fewer questions that I found interesting to answer.
Nowadays, I probably check KudoZ thr... See more I don't depend on KudoZ. I remember using it a few years back when in doubt about phrases or words. As one of my research tools. Haven't used it in a long time.
However, I contributed quite a lot with answers because it was an interesting mind exercise and I liked the challenge.
Then I lost interest, maybe because I wasn't happy with other things on this site. Or because there seemed to be fewer questions that I found interesting to answer.
Nowadays, I probably check KudoZ three or four times a year just to see what's going on. I still can't say I find anything interesting I feel I can contribute to.
Now AI is there with a strong confidence, a non-thinking, non-talking, non-joking, non-criticizing machine comparing a question with possible answers stored in its machine files. I can't talk to it and it's quite perplexing to me I find it here.
Use it as just another tool in your work. Ok. Can I depend on it? Not without confirmation by a professional human translator. That's a bit different from another professional human translator listing an answer himself or herself.
Problem is its presence feeds the AI craze and makes certain people think they can rely on it. Confidence level it displays is often 4 or 5.
We all use technology to a certain degree, and I still have to be the one deciding whatever I pulled out of a software is correct, incorrect, needs fixed, or tweaked. To think that we should earn less money because a text has been run through a translation machine is ludicrous. I can do this myself all day and still have to go through everything with my THINKING brain. It's the final translation that I sell and charge for. But I digress.
So, point is .. don't trust AI translations. Don't make it seem like they can be trusted. Level 4 or 5?!
Instead of promoting AI development as if we' were dealing with a living, breathing translator, let's take it down a notch and tell people how irreplaceable human translators really are. See my other contribution to this thread a little earlier.
[Edited at 2024-01-17 15:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:00
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Dan Lucas wrote: Christopher Schröder wrote: You also said you'd never use a CAT tool Yes, that was a big shift from his former attitude of trenchant disapproval, but I think the fact that Tom did eventually give it another go is a point in his favour. It's not easy to change one's working habits later in one's career (I speak from personal experience) and it is admirable that he was willing and able to do so. Dan
It was lockdown. I didn't have much work. So I explored some CAT tools. There's nothing admirable about that.
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:00
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Tom in London wrote:
There's nothing admirable about that.
My opinion of your behaviour is not conditional on your agreement...
Dan
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 18:00
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
Tom in London wrote: Christopher Schröder wrote: Tom in London wrote:
I will probably never again ask or answer any Kudoz questions, although I think I can see how unscrupulous users will now be able to accumulate kudoz points. You also said you'd never use a CAT tool Are you keeping a file on me? I'm certainly keeping one on you.
Chris, you lucky son of a gun! I so wish Tom kept a file on my good self: 'For some unfathomable reason, she appears to be exceedingly fond of me.'
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 18:00
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
P.L.F. Persio wrote: Tom in London wrote: Christopher Schröder wrote: Tom in London wrote:
I will probably never again ask or answer any Kudoz questions, although I think I can see how unscrupulous users will now be able to accumulate kudoz points. You also said you'd never use a CAT tool Are you keeping a file on me? I'm certainly keeping one on you. Chris, you lucky son of a gun! I so wish Tom kept a file on my good self: 'For some unfathomable reason, she appears to be exceedingly fond of me.'
I took the time to explain to Tom, step by step, how to use ChatGPT without exposing his phone number, which he was concerned about, to which he said: “Thanks, but no thanks.” (and I engaged in a lengthy explanation). These days however he seems to be asking various mundane questions to GPT and pasting its lengthy monotonous answers here, as if we were interested in what GPT has to say. The conclusion is: whatever tech Tom says “No” to, he is actually using it behind our backs.
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