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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

to elect to take against any last will

French translation:

choisir de renoncer aux dispositions testamentaires et de recueillir la part de la succession définie par la loi

Added to glossary by ph-b (X)
Jan 7, 2022 15:58
2 yrs ago
37 viewers *
English term

to elect to take against any last will

English to French Law/Patents Law (general)
the Husband and Wife each hereby waives any and all rights at law or in equity that he or she may now have or hereafter acquire as spouse under the laws of any jurisdiction, to elect to take against any last will or codicil made by the other.
Proposed translations (French)
3 -2 choisir de rejeter les dispositions testamentaires et demander/recueillir...
4 -2 choisir d'engager (d'initier) une procédure légale contre le testament de l'autre
3 -1 d'exercer l'option successorale de renoncer à la part testamentaire pour la réserve héréditaire
3 -1 Renonce à contester les dernières volontés qu'elle qu'en soit la teneur.
Change log

Jan 8, 2022 16:28: ph-b (X) Created KOG entry

Jan 9, 2022 21:34: ph-b (X) changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/3387455">ph-b (X)'s</a> old entry - "to elect to take against any last will "" to ""choisir de rejeter les dispositions testamentaires et demander/recueillir...""

Discussion

Eliza Hall Jan 9, 2022:
@ Germaine Yes, what they're waiving is the right to exercise their statutory right to take against the other's will.

Since there's no context, it seems like an odd provision to me, because normally when we talk about a spouse electing an inheritance right against their deceased spouse's estate, it's referring to their elective share (their right to inherit X%, usually 33% or 50%, of the spouse's estate even if the will left them less than that percentage).

But in context, I would imagine it makes sense; it might just be a way of ensuring that the spouse cannot possibly claim any right to inherit in any way other than whatever is specifically set forth in the rest of the document Sylvie's translating. It may be a way to insulate the estate not only against statutory claims, but against lawsuits from the surviving spouse (since this spells out that he or she has absolutely no possible claim).
Sylvie André (asker) Jan 9, 2022:
oui Germaine je sais bien ... ; )
ph-b (X) Jan 9, 2022:
elect to take against any last will La question porte sur elect to take against any last will, pas sur waive any right… to take against any last will. Sylvie André est parfaitement capable de traduire seule waive any right to. Voir ma réponse pour la définition de elect to take against any last will.
Germaine Jan 8, 2022:
Eliza, Donc, si je comprends bien l'explication donnée (et pour ce que je sais de l'exercice des "choix" légaux en matière successorale), on aurait:
"Chacun des [conjoints][époux] renonce par les présentes à tout droit en common law et en equity qu'ils peuvent avoir l'un ou l'autre actuellement, ou acquérir ci-après en vertu de la loi de quelque ressort, d'exercer un choix à l'égard du testament ou du codicille de l'autre."
puisque somme toute, c'est à l'exercice du choix éventuellement offert qu'ils renoncent, et non aux dispositions d'un testament/codicille ou de la loi ou au bénéfice de l'un au profit/détriment de l'autre.
Eliza Hall Jan 8, 2022:
Here's the problem Each spouse "waives any... rights... to elect to take against any last will... made by the other."

On its own that seems like an odd provision, but the rest of the document probably gives context (unless it's badly drafted). It sounds like this may be a trust or prenuptial agreement, and the spouses have set up a certain way of providing property to each other if one of them dies (e.g., maybe they've set up trusts or bought life insurance with each other as beneficiary).

Having done that, now, in the doc Sylvie's translating, they're RENOUNCING the right to choose to inherit under each other's wills.

So translations that suggest any of the following are wrong:
- That they're renouncing the right to CONTEST each other's wills;
- That they're renouncing the right to choose to REJECT each other's testamentary dispositions (wills);
- That they're waiving the right to renounce the will's dispositions in favor of their elective share.

I haven't proposed a translation because AFAIK none of this exists under FR law, and I'm not familiar enough w/the language of FR inheritance law to invent appropriate language for it. But none of the proposed translations seems correct to me.
Eliza Hall Jan 7, 2022:
Meaning of "to take against a will" "This seemingly cryptic expression 'to elect to take against the will' denotes 'a spouse’s statutory right to choose, upon the other spouse’s death, either the share under the deceased spouse’s will or the share of the estate as defined in the probate statute, which usually amounts to what a spouse would have received had he died intestate'."
https://rebeccajowers.com/2020/10/07/weird-legal-english-wha...

The document being translated here says that both spouses agree that if they are the surviving spouse, they waive (renoncer) their statutory right to claim a share under the deceased spouse's will or any codicil to that will.
AllegroTrans Jan 7, 2022:
Germaine Please post as suggestion

Proposed translations

-2
14 hrs
Selected

choisir de rejeter les dispositions testamentaires et demander/recueillir...

... la part de la succession définie par la loi.

If the deceased spouse made a Last Will, unless a surviving spouse has waived the right to elect again the deceased spouse's Last Will during the decedent's lifetime, a surviving spouse may reject the provision made for the surviving spouse in the decedent's Will and take instead a ½ share of the decedent's estate.
https://www.vermontjudiciary.org/sites/default/files/documen...

(a) On the death of a spouse, the surviving spouse may elect, as provided in subsection (c) of this section, to take a statutory share of the real and personal property passing under the will of the deceased spouse. The “statutory share” means a life estate of one-third in value of all the property passing under the will, real and personal, legally or equitably owned by the deceased spouse at the time of his or her death, after the payment of all debts and charges against the estate. The right to such third shall not be defeated by any disposition of the property by will to other parties.

(b) If the deceased spouse has by will devised or bequeathed a portion of his or her property to his or her surviving spouse, such provision shall be taken to be in lieu of the statutory share unless the contrary is expressly stated in the will or clearly appears therein; but, in any such case, the surviving spouse may elect to take the statutory share in lieu of the provision of the will.

(c) The surviving spouse, or the conservator or guardian of the estate of the surviving spouse, with the approval, after notice and hearing, of the Probate Court by which such conservator or guardian was appointed, shall, not later than one hundred fifty days after the mailing of the decree admitting the will to probate, file a notice, in writing, of his or her intention to take the statutory share with the Probate Court before which the estate is in settlement, and if such notice is not so filed, the surviving spouse shall be barred of such statutory share.
https://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap_802b.htm#sec_45a-436

Je comprends qu'à moins que l'époux survivant n'ait renoncé à ce droit, il peut décider de rejeter les dispositions testamentaires et demander/recueillir une part de la succession fixée par la loi, part qui semble varier en fonction des États (50 % ou 33 % dans les exemples ci-dessus).

Je ne sais pas si nous avons la même chose en France, mais j'ai trouvé un exemple qui s'en approche :
« qu'elle a ainsi clairement exprimé son choix de renoncer aux dispositions testamentaires pour bénéficier exclusivement du quart des biens en pleine propriété » (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/juri/id/JURITEXT000025862173/...

J'ai préféré ne pas utiliser « part réservataire » parce que les exemples cités précisent bien que le légataire agit par choix, alors que la part réservataire est une obligation en France.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 heures (2022-01-08 06:35:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


Comme je disais, je ne sais pas si nous avons la même chose en France ni s'il existe une formule consacrée, d'où la longueur de ma proposition.

Au risque de faire l'impasse sur le rejet des dispositions testamentaires, on pourrait peut-être se contenter de « choisir de demander/recueillir la part de la succession définie par la loi », ce qui a le mérite d'aller droit au but.

Je vous laisse en juger.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 heures (2022-01-08 06:40:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oups - je voulais dire « renoncer aux... » (et pas « rejeter les... ), comme dans l'exemple de la Cour de Cassation.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 heures (2022-01-08 06:46:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Décidément ! « Cour de cassation » (et pour le lien qui ne fonctionne pas, voir Cour de cassation - Chambre civile 1 N° de pourvoi : 11-12.306 Audience publique du vendredi 11 mai 2012 Décision attaquée : Cour d'appel d'Agen, du 19 janvier 2011)
Peer comment(s):
disagree Eliza Hall : What you've written after "Je comprends qu'à moins que..." is the opposite of what's being expressed here. See discussion.
13 hrs
La question porte sur elect to take against any last will, pas sur waive any right… to take against any last will..
disagree Germaine : Il ne s'agit pas de choisir l'un au profit ou au détriment de l'autre ou de refuser les deux (ce que semble aussi dire votre suggestion), mais simplement de renoncer à exercer ce choix s'il existe.
16 hrs
La question porte sur elect to take against any last will, pas sur waive any right… to take against etc..
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-2
27 mins

choisir d'engager (d'initier) une procédure légale contre le testament de l'autre

take action against (someone or something) =
To initiate legal proceedings against someone or something
Reference:

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+action+against+(someone+or+something)

Note from asker:
Merci mais il ne s'agit pas de cela..
Peer comment(s):
disagree Germaine : Je ne crois pas qu'on puisse "engager une procédure..." contre un testament: ce n'est pas une "partie" défenderesse. Il me semble que la formule est "contester un testament" (to take against = prendre en grippe)..
7 mins
neutral AllegroTrans : On "engage une procédure" contre une personne, pas contre un testament. Le bon mot ici est "contester"
12 mins
neutral Andrew Bramhall : D'accord avec les commentaires ci-dessus;
1 hr
disagree Eliza Hall : To take against a will means to exercise your statutory right to inherit under a will. See discussion.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs
English term (edited): to elect to take against any last will (US Law: widow's right of election)

d'exercer l'option successorale de renoncer à la part testamentaire pour la réserve héréditaire

... renoncer au legs testamentaire et et en faveur de la réserve héréditaire, namely - in England & Wales - approx. an automatic entitlement on intestacy *on the statutory trusts* e.g. chilren take next cf. Barron's US Am. Law Dictionary: take under the Will or 'a share of the deceased's / decedent's estate as *set forth by statute*'.

I think I understand this US Am. phraseology from working in England & Wales probate as well as the Scots law widow's 'legitim' in letters of confirmation, but over to our US A, Attorneys-at-Law in case I make myself guilty of professional negligence : je me rends coupable d'une faute professionelle...

I have a horrible feeling that this phrase may have been misunderstood on ProZ in various langauge combinations and permutations.

[Click for term details] English to Polish Law/Patents
> Law: Contract(s)
> "testament, intercyza" elect to take against the will wybrać składniki masy spadkowej inne niż wynikające z testamentu kfiatek | Kamila Perczak KudoZ
[Click for term details] English to Polish Law/Patents
> Law: Contract(s)
> "testament, intercyza" elect to take against the will wybrać składniki masy spadkowej inne niż wynikające z testamentu kfiatek | Kamila Perczak KOG
[Click for term details] English to Russian Law/Patents
> Law (general)
> "Добрачное Соглашение" elect to take against julls KudoZ
[Click for term details] English to Portuguese > Law: Contract(s)
> "diploma" elect to take against optar por impugnar Joao Crus | rhandler KudoZ
[Click for term details] English to Portuguese Not specified elect to take against optar por impugnar rhandler Glossary
[Click for term details] English to Portuguese > Law: Contract(s)
> "diploma" elect to take against optar por impugnar Joao Crus | rhandler KOG
[Click for term details] English to Russian Law/Patents
> Law: Contract(s)
> "antenuptial agreement" right to elect against somebody's will Право получить минимальную часть имущества супруги, гарантированную по закону Valeria Sokovets | Deborah Hoffman KudoZ
[Click for term details] English to Russian Law/Patents
> Law: Contract(s)
> "antenuptial agreement" right to elect against somebody's will Право получить минимальную часть имущества супруги, гарантированную по закону Valeria Sokovets KOG
[Click for term details] English to Russian Law/Patents
> Law (general) the right to elect against the estate right to elect = statutory right to choose protolmach | Tatiana Nero (X) KudoZ
[Click for term details] English to Russian Not specified the right to elect against the estate right to elect = statutory right to choose Tatiana Nero (X) Glossary
[Click for term details] English to Russian Law/Patents
> Law (general) the right to elect against the estate right to elect = statutory right to choose protolmach | Tatiana Nero (X) KOG
[Click for term details] English to Spanish Law/Patents
> Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs
> "divorcio" election to take against the other's will poder impugnar el testamento (del otro) Yvonne Becker | Pablo Grosschmid KudoZ
[Click for term details] English to Portuguese Law/Patents
> Law: Contract(s) electing to take against the wife's will requerer o seu direito percentual sobre a herança
Example sentence:

Right of election is the surviving spouse's statutory right to choose either 1/ the share under the will, or 2/ the share as defined by the probate statute (as the first spouse died intestate - without a will).

La réserve héréditaire ne représente jamais la totalité de l'héritage

Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-russian/law-general/696385-the-right-to-elect-against-the-estate.html

http://www.legalplace.fr/guides/avantager-heritier-succession/

Peer comment(s):
disagree Eliza Hall : It is waiving the right to exercise an option. See discussion.
9 mins
A trivial distinction and something tells me that you've still learned something.
agree ph-b (X) : C'est ce que je comprends aussi, mais je ne parlerais pas de « réserve héréditaire » ici./Chgement de neutral à agree, compte tenu de l'accumulation des disagree injustifiés selon moi. Voir aussi ma réponse à ces disagree.
13 hrs
Je crois alors que ta traduction s'est inspiré en principe de ma proposition. D'ailleurs, « réserve héréditaire » - qui existe bien aux États-Unis et non pas en Angleterre - n'est destiné qu'à raccourcir ma réponse.
disagree Germaine : Il s'agit de renoncer à exercer le choix, et certainement pas de renoncer à l'un au bénéfice ou détriment de l'autre.
1 day 5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
4 hrs

Renonce à contester les dernières volontés qu'elle qu'en soit la teneur.

Cordialement
Peer comment(s):
disagree Eliza Hall : Not what this means. See definition in discussion.
11 mins
Something went wrong...
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