| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Is it really so necessary to have Trados? Thread poster: Alex Dall'Asta
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Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 08:19
Polish to English
+ ...
| Long-term calamity | Dec 5, 2021 |
Trados-like software will strip you of the learning-while-working advantage. After a time, you will be less competent in the field, but definitely a great performer at mouse clicking.
If this is what you are after, great. Just that I have not found this part in the description of "translator" in dictionaries.
Plus...
Trados-like software has advantages, clearly. I am not interested in them, as they are obvious and they should be there.
What is more important... See more Trados-like software will strip you of the learning-while-working advantage. After a time, you will be less competent in the field, but definitely a great performer at mouse clicking.
If this is what you are after, great. Just that I have not found this part in the description of "translator" in dictionaries.
Plus...
Trados-like software has advantages, clearly. I am not interested in them, as they are obvious and they should be there.
What is more important is the problems and defects. Here you can write volumes on 'side effects' harming the translation process and (more importantly) the translator-client relationship.
All in all, CAT tools should help in translation, not replace the translator.
If you rely on tradoses, you will be expendable sooner or later. One, because you have happily given out all you skills and work for FREE, and two, because you will spiral down into dumbness. Long-term, you will master multiple choice traps, losing sensitivity to language(s), awareness of pseudo-synonym intricacies, and never even coming to the fence of active learning the subject matter of your (or trados'?) work.
('You' meaning any one of all of us, translators.) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu 
Ukrainian to English
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| Not necessarily | Dec 5, 2021 |
Some of us like to think of ourselves as akin to (artist) painters, but the sad truth is we're a lot closer to the fence kind of painter. And we most certainly do get paid by the square meter.
So, more often than not, you want that industrial spraying equipment. Typing miles of text by hand for simple jobs isn't just overrated, it is also extremely inconsistent. You can literally see the sloppy brush strokes.
But yes, a world with professional equipment does indeed need... See more Some of us like to think of ourselves as akin to (artist) painters, but the sad truth is we're a lot closer to the fence kind of painter. And we most certainly do get paid by the square meter.
So, more often than not, you want that industrial spraying equipment. Typing miles of text by hand for simple jobs isn't just overrated, it is also extremely inconsistent. You can literally see the sloppy brush strokes.
But yes, a world with professional equipment does indeed need far fewer sprayers than it would require if luddites with brushes were the only option.
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
Trados-like software will strip you of the learning-while-working advantage. After a time, you will be less competent in the field, but definitely a great performer at mouse clicking.
If this is what you are after, great. Just that I have not found this part in the description of "translator" in dictionaries.
Plus...
Trados-like software has advantages, clearly. I am not interested in them, as they are obvious and they should be there.
What is more important is the problems and defects. Here you can write volumes on 'side effects' harming the translation process and (more importantly) the translator-client relationship.
All in all, CAT tools should help in translation, not replace the translator.
If you rely on tradoses, you will be expendable sooner or later. One, because you have happily given out all you skills and work for FREE, and two, because you will spiral down into dumbness. Long-term, you will master multiple choice traps, losing sensitivity to language(s), awareness of pseudo-synonym intricacies, and never even coming to the fence of active learning the subject matter of your (or trados'?) work.
('You' meaning any one of all of us, translators.)
[Edited at 2021-12-05 22:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 07:19
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Would you mind... | Dec 5, 2021 |
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
Trados-like software will strip you of the learning-while-working advantage. After a time, you will be less competent in the field, but definitely a great performer at mouse clicking.
If this is what you are after, great. Just that I have not found this part in the description of "translator" in dictionaries.
Plus...
Trados-like software has advantages, clearly. I am not interested in them, as they are obvious and they should be there.
What is more important is the problems and defects. Here you can write volumes on 'side effects' harming the translation process and (more importantly) the translator-client relationship.
All in all, CAT tools should help in translation, not replace the translator.
If you rely on tradoses, you will be expendable sooner or later. One, because you have happily given out all you skills and work for FREE, and two, because you will spiral down into dumbness. Long-term, you will master multiple choice traps, losing sensitivity to language(s), awareness of pseudo-synonym intricacies, and never even coming to the fence of active learning the subject matter of your (or trados'?) work.
('You' meaning any one of all of us, translators.)
... to tell us please what CAT tool do you use to translate 13,000 words during 3 days only?
DejaVu, Trados Studio, Wordfast or a different one?
Thanks!
| | | | Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 08:19
Polish to English
+ ...
| a simple recipe | Dec 5, 2021 |
> Would you mind...
> ... to tell us please what CAT tool do you use to translate 13,000 words during 3 days only?
1. Highly (insanely) customised MS Word.
2. Extremely customised PC and Windows.
I would say that these two may be responsible for doubling the speed of translation. Almost all operations are done from the keyboard, with utter neglect of the mouse.
3. Translation desktop configuration (3 max monitors, SDDs, etc.) + the ability to m... See more > Would you mind...
> ... to tell us please what CAT tool do you use to translate 13,000 words during 3 days only?
1. Highly (insanely) customised MS Word.
2. Extremely customised PC and Windows.
I would say that these two may be responsible for doubling the speed of translation. Almost all operations are done from the keyboard, with utter neglect of the mouse.
3. Translation desktop configuration (3 max monitors, SDDs, etc.) + the ability to make all necessary maintenance work myself.
Which means no need for external services when in need. Which means 100% reliability for the client.
4. My own TMs and glossaries, developed from internationally approved sources, regularly maintained, expanded and updated. I definitely spend more time on preparing these resources than on actual translations.
5. Last but not least, WFC. The big ones, well, I use them very rarely, 100% time to check compatibility or to troubleshoot files from clients.
All three of them (WF, T, DV) are clumsy, oversaturated with functions, absurdly complicated and counter-ergonomical setting windows and other fancy stuff from programmer's dreams. And SLOW.
6. And the top top thing. Proficiency in all major business and technical fields, from basic physics, to metallurgy, hydrology, advanced accounting, law, knowledge of contract writing rules, certification processes, language of standards, passive knowledge and pretty good understanding of standard medicine plus very advanced immunology and genetics, and more...
In other words, I don't need dictionaries or other resources to check or look for words. No time wasted. When you know the subject of your work and operation of the machine is no fuss, translation is more like enjoyment of what you do.
7. I think this one is the most important 'asset' that makes translation productive: I love this work. I love learning during, from and beside the translation. It has never been boring or traumatic. And I love learning new things. Or doing old things in new ways (like 5 or more ways of creating parallel bilingual text in Word alone).
Besides...
13,000 words in 3 day equals to ca. 4,500 words per day. Or 550 words per hour. Bottom level minimum just to get to the next day. Profit is in anything done in excess of it.
Yes, there are more secrets to it, the above are only the basics
[Edited at 2021-12-06 10:24 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Like in all business, diversity is a plus. | Dec 5, 2021 |
The answer to this is No.
For the example of Photoshop to graphic designers, there are actually alternatives also for graphic designers,and the best tool you can use is always your proficiency and skills . It is the same for any profession and any tool used for doing tasks! I am also a music-designer, and we range in every possible tool from Reason to Logic Pro X to Steinberg Cubase to Avid Pro Tools to Ableton Live, a... See more The answer to this is No.
For the example of Photoshop to graphic designers, there are actually alternatives also for graphic designers,and the best tool you can use is always your proficiency and skills . It is the same for any profession and any tool used for doing tasks! I am also a music-designer, and we range in every possible tool from Reason to Logic Pro X to Steinberg Cubase to Avid Pro Tools to Ableton Live, and no organization ordering services demands one of them is better than the other. This all depends how you use the tool and of course bouncing the right format at the end. The end result is always the format, the proofreading you've done, and the word count.
For Microsoft Word for instance, I am using LibreOffice now, because of its interface, which is just as good. The Save As .docx or .pdf , or .doc or any of the multiple formats to choose give the almost same flexibility.
There are also alternatives to Power Point, in Mac-world we have Keynote.
I think showing that you have browsed and done some research on your own based upon interest in translation industry and even better, how to make efficient translations on a diverse practice and interest in different tools, can actually just be beneficial. Technology happens so fast now with a lot of machine learning, too, so now suddenly a lot of all-in-one webversions appear, too. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| Ah... carpal tunnel | Dec 6, 2021 |
The flavor of youth
Wearing out Microsoft Natural keyboards every season
Sometimes washing down pills with whiskey just to unclench your left hand
So nostalgic.
....mmm, nah, no thanks.
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 09:19
English to Russian
| How long does it take to become less competent? | Dec 6, 2021 |
Multiverse Solutions
If you rely on tradoses, you will be expendable sooner or later. I have been using CAT tools for 20 years. When that moment comes that I become expendable?
Fear of being replaced with tools is typical for those who have no idea of how they work. All those talks about "Trados must not replace a translator" demonstrate your zero understanding of the CAT tool concept. Tools just can’t replace tool users. Brushes can’t paint without a painter. Knives can’t cut without a cook. At the end of the day, you highly customized MS Word is exactly the same tool as Trados. If Trados can make you less competent, why Word can’t?
[Edited at 2021-12-06 08:20 GMT]
| | | | Stepan Konev
Russian Federation
Local time: 09:19
English to Russian
[Edited at 2021-12-06 08:12 GMT]
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
A lot of waffle ending with Besides... 13,000 words in 3 day equals to ca. 4,500 words per day. Or 550 words per hour. Bottom level minimum just to get to the next day. Profit is in anything done in excess of it. Yes, there are more secrets to it, the above are only the basics
There's nothing in your description that is any different (with personalised tweaks) from what any competent translator does on an everyday basis. The difference in your case is that you make yourself out to be such a big deal.
[Edited at 2021-12-06 08:18 GMT]
| | | | Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 08:19
Polish to English
+ ...
| Apparently no | Dec 6, 2021 |
> There's nothing in your description that is any different (with personalised tweaks) from what any competent translator does on an everyday basis. The difference in your case is that you make yourself out to be such a big deal.
1. A polite reply to a great (although slightly provocative) question from expressiverbis is not what you want to make out of it.
2. A detailed reply was to serve all those who read and, possible, gain inspiration. Because, I guess, not all ar... See more > There's nothing in your description that is any different (with personalised tweaks) from what any competent translator does on an everyday basis. The difference in your case is that you make yourself out to be such a big deal.
1. A polite reply to a great (although slightly provocative) question from expressiverbis is not what you want to make out of it.
2. A detailed reply was to serve all those who read and, possible, gain inspiration. Because, I guess, not all are as 'competent' as that one respondent. Just because in my understanding a 'community' is to serve a purpose better than pouring out personal opinions that are of no use to others.
3. If you believe that these things are 'no different', make a poll with translation agencies - the real ones, with physical offices, not worldwide supra-superb fakes. Ask them how many translators can handle more than say 3 pages (750 words) a day. Every day. You will be amazed.
3a. Even better, ask them how many translators are willing to work when necessary at all + how many reply to invitations fast enough to make a reasonable client-agency-translator cycle.
4. Yes, there are more 'secrets', or solutions that we apply in our work. Like rapid PDF processing, multi-language documents, cross-translations, table structure mastery, translating directly into non-editable formats, prepress translation, translation and document versioning...
5. Stating numbers is merely a landmark to navigate by. How else would you make a business out of translation?
All in all, thank you for the appreciation ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Good points mostly | Dec 6, 2021 |
Tom in London wrote: Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote: A lot of waffle ending with Besides... 13,000 words in 3 day equals to ca. 4,500 words per day. Or 550 words per hour. Bottom level minimum just to get to the next day. Profit is in anything done in excess of it. Yes, there are more secrets to it, the above are only the basics There's nothing in your description that is any different (with personalised tweaks) from what any competent translator does on an everyday basis. The difference in your case is that you make yourself out to be such a big deal. [Edited at 2021-12-06 08:18 GMT]
No need to be rude, Tom. Actually this last bit is the only bit I disagree with.
You don’t need to translate that many words or more to make a profit. It depends on your prices and your expenses. Chances are, a freelance translator will make a profit of some sort on 200 words a day. As for making a living, again I can’t see a typical translator needing to do more than 2,000 words.
Sometimes I will translate a 5,000 word report in a day without CAT. Other days I will produce just 300 words of copy. It just depends. But I will earn much the same both days. You certainly don’t need Trados etc if you pick your fields and clients carefully.
But it would be hard not to use a CAT tool working with agencies when starting out today.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
......
4. Yes, there are more 'secrets', or solutions that we apply in our work. Like rapid PDF processing, multi-language documents, cross-translations, table structure mastery, translating directly into non-editable formats, prepress translation, translation and document versioning...
.....
All translators do these things all the time. It isn't a secret. It isn't a big deal that you do them too.
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Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 08:19
Polish to English
+ ...
| That is perfectly right | Dec 6, 2021 |
> All translators do these things all the time.
Unfortunately, I am not a partner for that ping-pong. I do not have such a great 'I know all' view.
I only know just a few dozens of translators in person, a few hundred from online or phone contacts, and over a hundred real-life physical agencies. Well, we must be the ones of that worse under-educated and under-skilled sort.
The question arises, though... if everyone here is so perfect, why hundreds of pages ... See more > All translators do these things all the time.
Unfortunately, I am not a partner for that ping-pong. I do not have such a great 'I know all' view.
I only know just a few dozens of translators in person, a few hundred from online or phone contacts, and over a hundred real-life physical agencies. Well, we must be the ones of that worse under-educated and under-skilled sort.
The question arises, though... if everyone here is so perfect, why hundreds of pages of this forum? Is it not redunant, unnecessary or blatantly useless? ▲ Collapse
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 07:19
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Slightly provocative? | Dec 6, 2021 |
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
1. A polite reply to a great (although slightly provocative) question from expressiverbis is not what you want to make out of it.
My question was asked based on your first comment. I asked myself how someone could make such statements when that person also uses translation tools. Nothing "slightly provocative" here.
I don't know what is more provocative: asking a simple question or claiming that those who use translation tools like Trados are less capable in their profession. Well, correct me please if I understood it wrong.
We have a very old saying "perguntar não ofende" (it never hurts to ask)...
CAT tools do not replace the work of a translator, they are programs that facilitate the interaction between human resources and technology.
I see translation tools (CAT or not CAT tools) as technology in favor of translators. There are good and bad resources, and it's up to us to pick the one(s) that we consider the most useful and profitable for our work.
I think everyone should consider it this way.
[Edited at 2021-12-06 11:36 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:19
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
> All translators do these things all the time.
Unfortunately, I am not a partner for that ping-pong. I do not have such a great 'I know all' view.
I only know just a few dozens of translators in person, a few hundred from online or phone contacts, and over a hundred real-life physical agencies. Well, we must be the ones of that worse under-educated and under-skilled sort.
The question arises, though... if everyone here is so perfect, why hundreds of pages of this forum? Is it not redunant, unnecessary or blatantly useless?
Maybe it's your English.
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